# How offensive is "Merry Christmas" to a Jew? (Bill O'Riley situation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008 "2005-12-04T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/81 "2005-12-05T16:42:21Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > * * * > > And in the good old days, when my ancestors chose not to believe, they’d get killed and tortured. No thanks. > > So you wern’t paying attention when your world history teacher mentioned the Roman sport of throwing Christians to the lions. > Ever read about the Christian martyrs? Seems pagans had a habit of some unusual treatment which resulted in death. Your ancestors were Roman Christians? Really? So that makes you a victim now? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/82 "2005-12-05T17:06:00Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > So you wern’t paying attention when your world history teacher mentioned the Roman sport of throwing Christians to the lions. > Ever read about the Christian martyrs? Seems pagans had a habit of some unusual treatment which resulted in death. So, what - you’re saying that the pagan Romans were also murderous assholes? We already knew that. What does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/83 "2005-12-05T18:43:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Your ancestors were Roman Christians? Really? So that makes you a victim now? No actually they wern’t. Polish German and Norwegion here. Voyager is the one who claimed his ancestors were torchered by Christians. Don’t see you questioning his statement. Really I’m just answering questions. Don’t know how torture got into this discussion. Maybe you can explain why someone would bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/84 "2005-12-05T20:11:31Z")
I think you need to go into the nature of offensive. Are some people offended by a well intentioned “Merry Christmas.” Yep. Some CHRISTIANS are offended by it (i.e. the whole co-opting their holiday by non-believers). These people have to stop growling “what’s so good about it” when someone wishes them a nice day. However, when the intent of wishing someone a Merry Christmas is not well intentioned - i.e. wishing your Jewish coworker Merry Christmas to rub his face in his exclusion, or wishing someone a Merry Christmas as a opening to witnessing, then I think you have a good reason to be offended. The problem is that the recipient of the wish may have a hard time telling the difference. I have wished Jewish coworkers Merry Christmas out of simple forgetfulness, not ill will. But sometimes its easy to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/85 "2005-12-06T00:10:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So, what - you’re saying that the pagan Romans were also murderous assholes? We already knew that. What does that have to do with anything? Uh, excuse me? I’m a Pagan Roman, you know. I am a priestess of the goddess Cybele. I never murdered anyone, and in fact I practice ahimsa (nonviolence). I don’t do that empire thing. My people, the priestesses of Cybele, lived outside Roman civilization in the wild hills where we drummed and danced ecstatically. So watch it with the stereotyping, OK? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/86 "2005-12-06T00:44:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So, what - you’re saying that the pagan Romans were also murderous assholes? We already knew that. What does that have to do with anything? Actually I was refering to much later day martyrs. Many were missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/87 "2005-12-06T00:59:54Z")
Just remember: “Merry Christmas!” is sectarian, but “Bah! Humbug!” is transcultural! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/88 "2005-12-06T01:18:50Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Uh, excuse me? I’m a Pagan Roman, you know. I am a priestess of the goddess Cybele. I never murdered anyone, and in fact I practice ahimsa (nonviolence). I don’t do that empire thing. My people, the priestesses of Cybele, lived outside Roman civilization in the wild hills where we drummed and danced ecstatically. Wouldn’t that last sentence pretty much make you a non-Roman pagan? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/89 "2005-12-06T01:19:41Z")
> [@Race Bannon](#): > > “Have a celbration of Jesus as God-on-earth” - to a Jew, would be blasphemy. Only if the Jew said it, if a Gentile said it, it would be a harmless greeting. As for the ‘marketing’ of Christmas, it doesn’t matter what Macy’s does, they will make a marketing decision based on what they think the political trends are, which are largely shallow. Any Christian who really knows their faith, and any Jew that really knows their faith would probably be friends were they to meet. It’s only the jackasses that really think there is some kind of big conflict, and their attention spans were manufactured by television networks. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/90 "2005-12-06T01:41:49Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Nope. Only christians are celebrating the birth of Jesus. The rest of us are celebrating whatever we _feel_ like celebrating. I think you’ve been whooshed. Couldn’t “Merry Christmas” just be saying, “Have a nice day on the day that is designated as Christmas?” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/91 "2005-12-06T01:59:28Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > No actually they wern’t. > Polish German and Norwegion here. > Voyager is the one who claimed his ancestors were torchered by Christians. Don’t see you questioning his statement. > > Really I’m just answering questions. Don’t know how torture got into this discussion. > Maybe you can explain why someone would bring it up. You need to learn how to use the quote tag. put [quote] PUT QUOTED TAG HERE!!! [/quote] . Only leave out the spaces in between the word “quote” and the [and] so it looks like this (if spelled correctly). [quot] Balh blah blah [/quot] To attibute a quote to a various poster, simple put quote=such and such Doper in the first bracket. Okay? Because your posts are impossible to parse when you try to repeat others’ statements. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/92 "2005-12-06T03:01:16Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > , > > as a matter of history: > > Jesus was a jew. > > All his disciples were jews > > All of their followers were jews, until Paul took over as vice president for marketing. > > The only difference between orthodox jews and jews who subscribed to the Nazarene sect was the issue of circumcision (a practice I have been known to deplore as fundamentally sex-negative and all-round sick). > > Is this any foundation upon which to build an identity? I’m not sure who you’re castigating here, exactly, but the difference between Jews and early Christians was a little more significant than you imply. Also: **justwannano** , what is your major malfunction? I don’t see anyone here saying you shouldn’t celebrate Christmas if you want to. The point is: it’s rude to imply (as Bill O’Reilly did) that everyone _should_ celebrate Christmas. I don’t care about your own religious celebrations, but a little acknowledgement that not all of us are Christians and some of us do not celebrate Christmas would be nice now and then. (Which is actually fairly standard, for some reason O’Reilly can’t stand this. Oh wait, I remember the reason now: he’s a blowhard jerk.) ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/93 "2005-12-06T06:03:40Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m not sure who you’re castigating here, exactly, but the difference between Jews and early Christians was a little more significant than you imply. > > Also: **justwannano** , what is your major malfunction? I don’t see anyone here saying you shouldn’t celebrate Christmas if you want to. The point is: it’s rude to imply (as Bill O’Reilly did) that everyone _should_ celebrate Christmas. I don’t care about your own religious celebrations, but a little acknowledgement that not all of us are Christians and some of us do not celebrate Christmas would be nice now and then. (Which is actually fairly standard, for some reason O’Reilly can’t stand this. Oh wait, I remember the reason now: he’s a blowhard jerk.) I have a malfunction? If you look at my first post you’ll notice that I started this discussion wondering why anyone would be offended by a celebration of someones birthday. Better take a good look inside yourself hon. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/94 "2005-12-06T06:23:54Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > I have a malfunction? > If you look at my first post you’ll notice that I started this discussion wondering why anyone would be offended by a celebration of someones birthday. > Better take a good look inside yourself hon. Nobody IS offended by the _celebration_ of whatever mythical event you want to believe in. What’s offensive is pointedly sneering a religious slogan at someone who does not share your religious views with the clear intent of insulting them- particularly if that person is part of a minority which has been historically _victimized_ by your religion. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/95 "2005-12-06T06:51:57Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Uh, excuse me? I’m a Pagan Roman, you know. I am a priestess of the goddess Cybele. I never murdered anyone, and in fact I practice ahimsa (nonviolence). I don’t do that empire thing. My people, the priestesses of Cybele, lived outside Roman civilization in the wild hills where we drummed and danced ecstatically. > > So watch it with the stereotyping, OK? I thought Cybele was worshipped by priests who cut off their wangs? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/96 "2005-12-06T07:01:37Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I thought Cybele was worshipped by priests who cut off their wangs? Now, see, that right there is why I object to circumcision on principle first they take the front, and later they come back for the rest… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/97 "2005-12-06T07:04:35Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I thought Cybele was worshipped by priests who cut off their wangs? The Cybelines had both male and female priests/priestesses. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/98 "2005-12-06T07:06:23Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m not sure who you’re castigating here, exactly, but the difference between Jews and early Christians was a little more significant than you imply. > > Also: **justwannano** , what is your major malfunction? I don’t see anyone here saying you shouldn’t celebrate Christmas if you want to. The point is: it’s rude to imply (as Bill O’Reilly did) that everyone _should_ celebrate Christmas. I don’t care about your own religious celebrations, but a little acknowledgement that not all of us are Christians and some of us do not celebrate Christmas would be nice now and then. (Which is actually fairly standard, for some reason O’Reilly can’t stand this. Oh wait, I remember the reason now: he’s a blowhard jerk.) ought we not distinguish between the cute shiksas singing christmas carols at Macy’s and Kid Astroglide, who is riding this theme as some kind of jihad to bludgeon conformity out of what Dave Dinkins used to call “our glorious mosaic”. If O’reilly wished ME a Merry Christmas I want to bust him in the chops, partly for speaking my cousin’s name with the same filthy lips he uses to whisper loathsome suggestions into the phone ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/99 "2005-12-06T08:13:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nobody IS offended by the _celebration_ of whatever mythical event you want to believe in. What’s offensive is pointedly sneering a religious slogan at someone who does not share your religious views with the clear intent of insulting them- particularly if that person is part of a minority which has been historically _victimized_ by your religion. Ya know I think you are reading way way too much into this. I learned in grade school that if you allow someone to get your goat they will continue to do so. Best to ignore it and it will go away. Now as to the hateful part of your comment. I would like to see know what kind of comment leads you to believe that "Merry Christmas " is sneeringly a religious slogan. Also Please explain > [@](#): > > particularly if that person is part of a minority which has been historically _victimized_ by your religion. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/100 "2005-12-06T08:23:52Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > I would like to see know what kind of comment leads you to believe that "Merry Christmas " is sneeringly a religious slogan. Not to put words in his mouth, but I’d wager it was the circumstances of the quote with Bill O’Reilly wishing a “Merry Christmas” to someone he knows is a Jew in the context of O’Reilly’s continued attacks on the ‘secular agenda’ or whatever phrase he trots out. As I said in my first post to this thread, it reads like him saying “Hah, this is a Christian nation and we’ll keep it that way and rub your nose in it to boot. Suck it up Jewboy.” > [@justwannano](#): > > Also Please explain [snipped quote] Again not to put words in his mouth, but the Jews have gotten a hard time from Christianity for quite some time. IIRC it was only in Vatican II that the Catholic church, for example, rescinded their claim that it was “The Jews” who killed Jesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=6)