# How offensive is "Merry Christmas" to a Jew? (Bill O'Riley situation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008 "2005-12-04T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/161 "2005-12-07T22:29:35Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > BTW Tom old boy > The Christians were persecuted by the Romans for 3 centuries. Didn’t give much time for the Christians to persecute the Jews. Now if you just think a little you’ll realize that the number of Christians make it a pretty good bet that they wern’t persecuting anyone for a long long time.Probably a better bet that they were also persecuted by the Jews . If you want to try to be historical, learn some history. There was, indeed, a brief period of Jewish persecution of Christians when Christianity was simply Jewish heresy. Following that, there was a slightly longer period of mutual animosity (mostly relegated to the region of Asia minor, with much less animosity in Egypt and Rome) that sort of dried up by the end of the first century. However, Christians were not “persecuted by the Romans for 3 centuries.” That is the sort of nonsense that indicates a real lack of knowledge. There was a period of roughly 250 years when different Christians at different times in different parts of the empire were persecuted, generally for periods of ten or fewer years at a time. During that period, in those locales where Christians were not actively being persecuted, they often adopted the anti-Jewish attitudes that began to creep over the Roman Empire following the 132 Jewish revolt (in which more of the Diaspora was involved in either sending funds to the rebels or resisting war taxes by the Empire). Throughout that period, when Christians had positions of power, they did, indeed, often (not always) persecute Jews. > [@](#): > > Secondly If O’Reilly has an agenda of saving Christmas as it is and Stewart has one of changing it the question being considered is mute. > As I have said the question of Merry Christmas being offensive is just a juvenile attempt at changing something they don’t like. Stewart is doing nothing to change anything regarding Christmas, so your argument begins falsely. O’Reilly does not want to “save” anything; he simply wants to impress his listeners with his continuing attacks on “secular humanism.” The question is not moot; you has simply expressed a non-question in ignorance. You are continuing to repeat your base falsehood that anyone claims that simply the act of wishing “Merry Christmas” is offensive. Your false statement has been pointed out by multiple posters. You have now entered the realm of simply repeating an obvious lie to no good purpose. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/162 "2005-12-07T22:39:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Bill O’Reilly is a smug jerk who likes being condescending and rude to other people. … Now O’Reilly is the type who likes to bitch and moan and make mountains out of mole hills. HE throws hissyfits at the drop of a hat. He’d be the FIRST guy to get all in an uproar over a stupid holiday greeting. And he’s Catholic, so he celebrates Christmas." Hang on there. Some of us Catholics do not want to be asscoiated with that lying rat bastard in any way, shape, or form. He does not speak for us. At least not for me. He likes to start shit, and then cries about being the victim. He’s a little bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/163 "2005-12-07T22:44:49Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Yeah, I’m transsexual, Gosh, who knew? > [@Johanna](#): > > and some individuals may find a juvenile sort of pleasure in needling me about it, In the implausible event that I wanted to needle anyone about being transsexual, I would choose a venue in which it was a little less likely that an accusation of transphobia was a guilty-until-proven-innocent proposition. Given the extent to which you manage to lever conversations around to your gender identity and sexuality, you can hardly be surprised if something gives me occasion to say, in effect, “It’s funny you should say that…” > [@Johanna](#): > > but this hijack doesn’t belong in this thread. Start another thread if you want to poke fun at my religion. Who am I to poke fun at anyone’s sincerely-held beliefs? I might conceivably mock someone whom I viewed as a touch twee and pretentious, but that’s a whole 'nother story. > [@Johanna](#): > > This one is supposed to be about Christians and Jews. Might’ve behoved you not to drag Paganism into it them, yesno? Seriously, no offence intended. It’s only a day or so ago you were talking about a useless item you carry about with you, and under the circumstances… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/164 "2005-12-07T23:00:23Z")
Do Christians generally have a hard time with non-christians saying Merry Christmas and not buying into their definition of the day? Taking the day off? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/165 "2005-12-07T23:33:03Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Do Christians generally have a hard time with non-christians saying Merry Christmas and not buying into their definition of the day? Taking the day off? Just curious. I seem to remember a Christian starting a thread to complain about it a couple of years ago. I’ll see if I can find it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/166 "2005-12-07T23:40:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why not just wish them a Happy Hanukkah in return? They’ll understand in a second or so, and it would be more in the spirit of well-wishing you were addressed with, too. I never mentioned _how_ I informed them that it was inappropriate. The “Happy Chanukkah” response is one of the many arrows in my quiver. 🙂 But I find that for many folks who grew up in a predominantly Christian culture it never occurs to them that I wouldn’t celebrate Christmas, even those who know I’m Jewish. Ah well, it’s not something I lose sleep over. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/167 "2005-12-08T00:12:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I seem to remember a Christian starting a thread to complain about it a couple of years ago. I’ll see if I can find it. I found [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=153082), but I don’t think it’s the thread I had in mind. I seem to remember something more acrimonious. I can’t seem to find it on a search, but I have a distinct memory of somebody complaing that atheists shouldn’t celebrate Christmas. Maybe it was a digression from a thread rather than something started by the OP… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/168 "2005-12-08T00:14:25Z")
I honestly don’t know if I find **justwannano** ’s persistent willful ignorance scary or amusing in a headshaking way but clearly further discussion with someone who clearly is going to imagine what others say and do and use fantastical stories as history is only useful for those who enjoy the sensation of banging their heads against brick walls. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/169 "2005-12-08T00:41:20Z")
Well they tell me I?m beaten. A couple of suggestions that I quit while Im ahead. None of the questions that I asked were answered.A couple of comments about my spelling and litterary ability. Lots of rheteric about how the poor jew has been treated over the centuries. Guess they call name calling a threat. Guess they think they are the only ones too. None of the common sense you?d expect from educated folks like doubting the seriousness of one tv personality from a network that hired a guy named Rivera saying Merry Christmas to a personality on a comedy program on a different network. Wow what a threat to jewdom that must be. > [@tomndebb](#): > > If you want to try to be historical, learn some history. > > There was, indeed, a brief period of Jewish persecution of Christians when Christianity was simply Jewish heresy. Following that, there was a slightly longer period of mutual animosity (mostly relegated to the region of Asia minor, with much less animosity in Egypt and Rome) that sort of dried up by the end of the first century. > > However, Christians were not “persecuted by the Romans for 3 centuries.” That is the sort of nonsense that indicates a real lack of knowledge. There was a period of roughly 250 years when different Christians at different times in different parts of the empire were persecuted, generally for periods of ten or fewer years at a time. During that period, in those locales where Christians were not actively being persecuted, they often adopted the anti-Jewish attitudes that began to creep over the Roman Empire following the 132 Jewish revolt (in which more of the Diaspora was involved in either sending funds to the rebels or resisting war taxes by the Empire). Throughout that period, when Christians had positions of power, they did, indeed, often (not always) persecute Jews. > Google Christian Martyrs. > > I tried to post some sites but this computer is acting up. > Lots there. > Much more than is relevent in this thread but since you feel the need to belittle me do your own reading. > > Stewart is doing nothing to change anything regarding Christmas, so your argument begins falsely. > O’Reilly does not want to “save” anything; he simply wants to impress his listeners with his continuing attacks on “secular humanism.” > The question is not moot; you has simply expressed a non-question in ignorance. > How convenient . You should state for all to see that this is just your opinion. > You are continuing to repeat your base falsehood that anyone claims that simply the act of wishing “Merry Christmas” is offensive. Your false statement has been pointed out by multiple posters. You have now entered the realm of simply repeating an obvious lie to no good purpose. Nope. I asked how it could be.Most here stated that it was even though most of the time they ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/170 "2005-12-08T02:00:39Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Do Christians generally have a hard time with non-christians saying Merry Christmas and not buying into their definition of the day? Taking the day off? Just curious. Not here. Live and let live. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/171 "2005-12-08T02:03:54Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > Nope. I asked how it could be.Most here stated that it was even though most of the time they ignore it. Go back and read the thread. There are several posts explaining “how it could be.” Since you have not bothered to pay attention to any of them, it would be a waste of time to point them out to you or repeat them, again. You are being deliberately obtuse. You are also lying (again): > [@](#): > > Wow > what a threat to jewdom that must be. No one has claimed that O’Reilly is a threat. Several people have pointed out that, given a long history of persecution, a (purported) Christian who says “Merry Christmas” to a Jew for the purpose of insulting the Jew is, in fact, being insulting (not being a threat). You are also not winning either points or friends by using insulting terms such as “jewdom.” The word existed briefly in the 19th century, then fell into utter disuse, only to be revived in the last few years by groups alluding to the imagined “world wide Jewish conspircy.” Even in its original usage it meant something that never existed. The use of such inflammatory language will color the responses by people reading your posts. (And if you must use it, have the courtesy to capitalize it.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/172 "2005-12-08T02:23:26Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Hang on there. Some of us Catholics do not want to be asscoiated with that lying rat bastard in any way, shape, or form. He does not speak for us. At least not for me. He likes to start shit, and then cries about being the victim. He’s a little bitch. Well hey, I hear ya. I’m no longer practicing, but I was raised Catholic so I understand. I think I’m going to start a new holiday called “LetsAllJustGetAlong-Masukah”. And we shall decorate however we please, with trees or candles, and give gifts, and eat lots of food, get drunk, and give the finger to anyone who has a problem with it. Oh, and we get an O’Reilly pinata and whack the living shit out of it. Who’s with me? ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/173 "2005-12-08T03:32:59Z")
If I may remind everyone that I touched off this thread - and I have to say I’m kinda proud. I had sort of taken some time off from the SDMB, but I’m glad to see I can touch off a 4 page topic. I’m not supprised that I’m in the company of O’Riley detractors, and that’s comforting. Like I said, I watch too much Fox News. Things I never knew I never knew - SteveG1’s megachurch post (I can’t believe a church would take off Christmas!) and the forgivable hijack about Roman Paganism ( I was not really interested, but maybe now…) And, I have to say I grew up in Iowa, and have found an unusual participation from that state here… ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/174 "2005-12-08T05:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=GuinastasiaJJon Stewart’s likely reaction? “Dude, you need to switch to decaf.”[/QUOTE] I just watched Jon Stewart’s reaction on tonight’s Daily Show, and it was oh, so much more delicious than that. 🙂🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/175 "2005-12-08T05:08:24Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > I just watched Jon Stewart’s reaction on tonight’s Daily Show, and it was oh, so much more delicious than that. 🙂🆒 What did he do? I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/176 "2005-12-08T05:21:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Who’s with me? I’m in. Can cookies be the food of choice? ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/177 "2005-12-08T06:01:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What did he do? I missed it. He begins by mentioning that, as the audience already probably knows, there is a War on Christmas, and is dismayed to discover that the person waging this war…is him. He shows the O’Reilly clip, in which, after mentioning that opponents of public Christmas displays continue to put forth their arguments, he shows a Samantha Bee segment (“mistakenly” referring to Comedy Central as Secular Central along the way) where she says, in front of a backdrop of a December calendar: > [@Samantha Bee](#): > > …it’s the only religious holiday that is also a Federal holiday. So Christians can go to their services, and everybody else can stay home and contemplate the true meaning of the separation of church and state… Cut to Bill O’Reilly snidely wishing Jon Stewart a Merry Christmas. Cut to Jon Stewart looking dewey-eyed with his chin in his hands, mouthing “Thank You”, then drawing little hearts in the air affectionately. Then… > [@Jon Stewart](#): > > Thank you. > > And let me say to you, Bill O’Reilly, and everyone at the O’Reilly clan, Feliz Navidad… > > …although I’m sure you’re concerned that THAT’s getting too prevalent in this country as well. He then confesses to a memory lapse as to when they at the correctly-termed Godless Central aired this segment that O’Reilly groups with recent attacks on Christmas, so he calls out Samantha Bee herself. Her advancing pregnancy, obvious to all viewers this fall, has been “enhanced”, to say the least, for this segment, and for good measure she has managed to partially stretch the very sweater that hangs so comfortably in the O’Reilly-aired clip over her now-heavily-swollen belly. JS asks her to remind him just when this clip aired this holiday season, and after carefully examining her highlights in a freeze-frame, realizes that it aired LAST YEAR. “Apparently Mr. O’Reilly thought that no one would notice.” She then excuses herself as her water is breaking. > [@Jon Stewart](#): > > If that baby in there turns out be Jesus…someone owes somebody an apology. > > But apparently we liberal secular fags here at Comedy Central have fired a devastating, year-old, six-second-long joke that doesn’t hardly even make sense to us any more across the bow of Christianity. He then compares liberal to others who fight against Christmas, like… the Puritans, who banned it in Boston for 22 years as something unseemly. “Godless pricks!” He then riffs on O’Reilly’s “Happy Holidays” beef, pointing out that New Year’s Day is a holiday too, and plurals require an “S”. While conceding that you could say “Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year” all the time, he offers “…but you probably have sh\*t to DO!” He then declares that if Bill O’Reilly needs an enemy, needs to feel persecuted here is his Kwanzaa gift to him. And as a caption bearing his name for handy clip-airing appears with a festive seasonal border around him, JS says: > [@](#): > > I, Jon Stewart, hate Christmas…Christians, Jews, Morality! > > And I will not rest… > > until every year families gather on December 25th, together,… > > at Osama’s Homo-bortion-pot-and-commie-jizz-Purim! (It’s better live, obviously) Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/178 "2005-12-08T06:13:05Z")
And that’s why you don’t fuck with Jon Stewart. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/179 "2005-12-08T06:17:54Z")
Outstanding. I’ll have to watch the replay tomorrow. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008/180 "2005-12-08T06:49:17Z")
Damn, I missed it! I hope I remember to watch the reruns tomorrow. I heart Jon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-offensive-is-merry-christmas-to-a-jew-bill-oriley-situation/334008.md?page=10)