# How often are drivers prosecuted for fatal crashes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640 "2013-11-11T14:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/21 "2013-11-12T12:10:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I Is it the case in your area that careless driving, such as driving while texting, doesn’t get prosecuted when people die as the result? That’s not careless, that’s reckless. The difference, as **Loach** made clear, is intent. One doesn’t text whilst driving by accident. It is, however, quite possible to miss a sign or light unintentionally. Causing death by careless driving, however is a serious crime where I am ([cite](http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/causing_death_by_careless_or_inconsiderate_driving/)), but not as serious as death by dangerous driving ([http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s\_to\_u/sentencing\_manual/death\_by\_dangerous\_driving/](http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/)). ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/22 "2013-11-12T12:20:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I mean prosecuted. Does traffic court count as prosecuted? It’s a formal evaluation of a criminal charge (infraction of codified traffic laws) in a court and can lead to a restitution hearing where the DA can assess punitive damages. But there is no jury, and only sometimes a defense lawyer–just you and the judge and maybe spectators who may or may not be related to your case. But nobody’s doing time for a traffic violation. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/23 "2013-11-12T16:45:28Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > So far this year I’ve had 6 fatality accidents. Dude… It’s time to consider quitting driving. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/24 "2013-11-12T16:56:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I think I’ll need a cite where deaths in your jurisdiction all caused by careless driving aren’t prosecuted as a matter of routine or policy. My post is my cite? 😃 Ok, I understand the fact that I was on my department’s fatal accident investigation team for several years isn’t enough. How about the [statute](http://www.njcvlc.org/reference/njl/view_law.php?id=11)? (Sorry its not the primary source but the state website sucks, I usually use the books. But that is the actual statute.) From the first line: [QUOTE=NJSA 2C:11-5] Criminal homicide constitutes vehicular homicide when it is caused by driving a vehicle or vessel recklessly. [/QUOTE] Reckless driving is defined in a different statute as: > [@](#): > > A person who drives a vehicle heedlessly, in willful or wanton disregard of the rights or safety of others, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property… So its not a matter of routine or policy, its a matter of law. > [@Monty](#): > > You just contradicted yourself. No I didn’t. It is very rare that accidents are caused solely by outside failures such as failed brakes or road conditions. Equipment and road conditions are often a contributing factor but rarely the only one. There is almost always some human error as well. That does not mean that if there is a human factor someone is going to be prosecuted criminally. > [@Monty](#): > > Say what? Reckless: wanton and willful disregard for safety. Careless: being a bonehead and making a mistake. > [@Monty](#): > > Ah, so you are aware that there’s more than one level of unlawful misconduct which results in another human’s death. Yes. Sometimes it more than deserves criminal prosecution. Sometimes it deserves a traffic summons. > [@Monty](#): > > I mean prosecuted. Rereading your posts in this thread, it occurs to me that I did not misconstrue your assertion. Really? Is it the case in your area that careless driving, such as driving while texting, doesn’t get prosecuted when people die as the result? Texting and driving is a reckless and intentional act and [has](http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_jersey&id=9297034) been used to charge people with vehicular homicide. Of course you have to prove the texting was happening at the time of the accident. Which can sound a lot easier than it is. I’ll give you one example from years ago that I remember well because I know the family. A woman was driving down a 35 mph road. For some reason she did not see the stop sign and blew through an intersection. She T-boned another vehicle killing the driver. The other driver was an off duty Sheriff’s Officer from a neighboring county. He died almost instantly. She was cited for failure to stop at a stop sign and careless driving. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/25 "2013-11-12T16:58:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s not careless, that’s reckless. The difference, as **Loach** made clear, is intent. > > One doesn’t text whilst driving by accident. It is, however, quite possible to miss a sign or light unintentionally. > > Causing death by careless driving, however is a serious crime where I am ([cite](http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/causing_death_by_careless_or_inconsiderate_driving/)), but not as serious as death by dangerous driving ([http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s\_to\_u/sentencing\_manual/death\_by\_dangerous\_driving/](http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/death_by_dangerous_driving/)). I would not be surprised if some states have that option for a lower charge. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/26 "2013-11-12T17:37:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I would not be surprised if some states have that option for a lower charge. If I may be allowed to quote my own post… I’m certainly not going to look up every state but I did check one state in which Monty stated he lived in. Just from looking online California appears to have a statute in which someone can be prosecuted for carelessly causing the death of someone with a vehicle. However, it is a misdemeanor (subsection (2)), not a felony. Or in the terms used in my state, not a crime. > [@](#): > > California Penal Code 192(c) – Vehicular manslaughter. (“Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds.(c) Vehicular-- (1) Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 191.5, driving a vehicle in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to felony, and with gross negligence; or driving a vehicle in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, and with gross negligence. (2) Driving a vehicle in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to felony, but without gross negligence; or driving a vehicle in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, but without gross negligence. (3) Driving a vehicle in connection with a violation of paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 550, where the vehicular collision or vehicular accident was knowingly caused for financial gain and proximately resulted in the death of any person [also a violation of California’s automobile insurance fraud laws]. This provision shall not be construed to prevent prosecution of a defendant for the crime of murder.”) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/27 "2013-11-12T17:54:27Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Dude… It’s time to consider quitting driving. Yeah I could have worded that better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/28 "2013-11-12T22:23:04Z")
I think this question should definitely have asked about jurisdiction. It appears that the US has separate traffic courts, but in NZ, offences under the Land Transport Act are heard in the same court as other offences. Careless driving causing injury or death can have a sentence of up to 3 months imprisonment. Then there’s aggravated careless driving, as below > [@](#): > > Land transport Act 1998 Section 38 > A person commits an offence if the person causes bodily injury to or the death of a person by carelessly using a motor vehicle while— > > ``` > (a) driving the motor vehicle at a speed exceeding the applicable speed limit; or > > (b) driving the motor vehicle in such a manner as to commit an offence against the regulations or the rules concerning the manner in which a driver may overtake another vehicle or concerning the part of the road on which a driver may drive his or her motor vehicle. > > ``` This can be punished by up to 3 years imprisonment or a $10,000 fine. Prosecutions are common, especially under the first section. Crashes where it can solely be attributed to a mechanical failure are a very small proportion of those that happen, so most crashes where the at fault driver survives are going to be prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/29 "2013-11-13T01:06:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That’s exactly why I asked, but I didn’t want to raise the question in the context of the contentious driver-vs-bike debate. My first reaction was that for all the many tens of thousands of traffic fatalities in the US each year, I couldn’t imagine that there were also (slightly fewer) tens of thousands of drivers who were being prosecuted for those deaths. Sorry for outing you. 🙂 People make mistakes. On my way home I got hit by a woman who was basically sightseeing, and turned suddenly into a right turn lane I was occupying. Since I was in my car, it was no big deal. If I were on a bike I could have easily been killed or badly injured. We’ve build cars to try to insulate drivers and passengers from the mistakes of themselves and others. Hard to build a bike like that. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/30 "2013-11-13T01:12:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Around here, not often. But it certainly does happen. It is not enough that there was an accident and someone died. It has to be caused by criminal or gross negligence. There is an element of intent. You can’t just be careless. Most often in my experience the charges are brought in DUI fatalities. It is possible in cases of excessive speed (when that can be proven). But that speed would have to raise to the level of intentionally reckless. You will probably see an increase in vehicular manslaughter charges in cases of texting and driving. Some cases that have brought about vehicular manslaughter charges around here have involved cars racing on city streets. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/31 "2013-11-13T02:06:58Z")
**Monty** , just because someone has been killed, doesn’t necessarily mean that a criminal offence has occurred. There has to be the requirement of dangerous driving, defined in different ways in different jurisdictions. Careless driving usually is not sufficent for a criminal charge, even if death results. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/32 "2013-11-13T02:52:21Z")
About a year ago, my mother was driving me home from work on a darkened street, and we came to a standard four-way street light intersection. The light had just turned green, and we were about to move forward into the intersection when I saw something and quickly yelled **“STOP!”** Mom slammed _hard_ on the brakes. There was a man on a bicycle who, heedless of the red light, was turning left directly into oncoming traffic, and I mean he was _booking_ it. He wasn’t wearing reflective clothing, he didn’t have a headlight on his bike, and quite frankly there was no way in Hell Mom would have seen him if I hadn’t been there. He quite possibly owes his life to me. At the time, Mom’s eyesight wasn’t so good. (She has since had both cataracts removed from her eyes, and has 20/40 vision). If the bicyclist had been killed in the accident, quite clearly caused by his _own_ negligence, would Mom have been prosecuted? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/33 "2013-11-13T08:16:21Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > At the time, Mom’s eyesight wasn’t so good. (She has since had both cataracts removed from her eyes, and has 20/40 vision). If the bicyclist had been killed in the accident, quite clearly caused by his _own_ negligence, would Mom have been prosecuted? Are there laws where you are about how good your eyesight has to be to be allowed to drive? If not, I can’t see any grounds for it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640/34 "2013-11-13T16:07:34Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > I think this question should definitely have asked about jurisdiction. It appears that the US has separate traffic courts, but in NZ, offences under the Land Transport Act are heard in the same court as other offences. Like with pretty much everything legal in the US it varies from state to state. In NJ municipal courts deal with traffic offenses. They also deal with lower level criminal offenses such as disorderly persons offenses (misdemeanors) and indictable crimes (felonies) that the superior court decided to pass back down. So typically on court day there will be a lot of traffic tickets, domestic violence simple assault, shoplifting, bad checks, minor drug offenses, criminal mischief etc. No juvenile stuff though. Juvenile offenses (other than minor motor vehicle offenses) are handled in juvenile court. > [@suranyi](#): > > Some cases that have brought about vehicular manslaughter charges around here have involved cars racing on city streets. Racing is considered a serious intentional motor vehicle offense. Here it carries the highest point penalty you can get for a ticket. It is an obvious choice for vehicular homicide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-are-drivers-prosecuted-for-fatal-crashes/673640.md?page=1)