# How often has an airliner failed at cruising altitude? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218 "2014-03-08T20:58:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/21 "2014-03-09T15:09:49Z")
There was the [Kegworth disaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster) in England during the 80s. The left engine of the 737 developed a fault, and the pilots noted a severe thumping noise, vibrations and smoke. In error they shut down the right engine, which seemed to solve the problem. Actually, what had happened was that in the process of shutting down the wrong engine they had disconnected the autothrottle, reducing fuel flow to the stricken engine and apparently restoring things to normal. They diverted to East Midlands airport but as they approached the problem recurred. The plane crashed into a highway embankment about half a mile short of the runway. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/22 "2014-03-09T15:29:37Z")
Wow, I can’t believe I’ve got something new to post in an airline thread: EI AI Flight 1862 - apparently pins holding an engine broke, but the engine didn’t fall away cleanly and knocked out another engine as it fell. The 747 crashed into a block of flats. > **[El Al Flight 1862](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862)** > > On 4 October 1992, El Al Flight 1862, a Boeing 747 cargo aircraft of the then-state-owned Israeli airline El Al, crashed into the Groeneveen and Klein-Kruitberg flats in the Bijlmermeer (colloquially "Bijlmer") neighbourhood (part of Amsterdam-Zuidoost) of Amsterdam, the Netherlands. The crash is known in Dutch as the Bijlmerramp (Bijlmer disaster). > In all, 43 people were officially reported as killed, including all of the four people on board and 39 on the ground.: 9  In addition to these fa... How about Qantas Flight 30? An oxygen bottle exploded and blew a hole in the fuselage, but no injuries. > **[Qantas Flight 30](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_30)** > > Qantas Flight 30, on 25 July 2008, a Boeing 747-438 operated by Qantas, construction number 25067, registration VH-OJK, was a scheduled flight from London Heathrow to Melbourne with a stopover in Hong Kong. The flight was interrupted on the Hong Kong leg by an exploding oxygen tank that ruptured the fuselage just forward of the starboard wing root. 53-year-old Captain John Bartels (who had flown for Qantas for 25 years and the Royal Australian Navy for 7 years) and his co-pilots, Bernd Wernin... ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/23 "2014-03-09T15:56:34Z")
[ValuJet 592](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592), rendered uncontrollable by a cargo compartment fire. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/24 "2014-03-09T19:03:36Z")
Pan Am Flight 7, a Boeing 377 Stratocruiser was mysteriously lost about halfway between San Francisco and Honolulu in November 1957. > [@](#): > > From [Air & Space Magazine](http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-mystery-of-the-lost-clipper-5467157/?page=2) > At 4:04 p.m. local time, from an altitude of 10,000 feet, Captain Brown radioed a routine position report to the Pontchartrain, a Coast Guard weather ship stationed in the Pacific to assist over-flying aircraft. Romance of the Skies had just passed the point of no return and was on course and schedule, 1,160 miles from Honolulu and about 10 miles east of the Pontchartrain. The skies were clear and the seas calm, with the sun low in the western sky. Onboard the Clipper, Yvonne Alexander and Marie McGrath had just started serving hors d’oeuvres when something terrible happened. Twenty-two minutes later—wristwatches found on three recovered bodies had stopped at 4:26 p.m.—944 hit the water. > > Debris from 944 was eventually found 90 miles to the north of the flight’s intended track, suggesting that the airplane continued to fly for some time after the mysterious incident occurred. Fourteen of the 19 bodies recovered were wearing life vests but no shoes, indicating that some preparations had been made for ditching. (Yvonne Alexander’s body was found still strapped to its seat, a life vest carefully fitted over her serving apron.) Floating fragments of the fuselage and cabin indicated that the airplane hit the ocean with the nose slightly down and the right wing lowered. Although several of the recovered bodies exhibited “impact trauma,” according to the CAB report, the fact that most died from drowning suggests that 944’s final plunge into the sea was not completely uncontrolled. The wreckage had burn marks; these were above the waterline, indicating a post-crash fire, but there was no evidence of an inflight conflagration. The cause of the accident has never been determined. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/25 "2014-03-09T21:59:00Z")
Sounds like the same problem Billy Shatner saw which got him carried off the plane in a straight jacket or strapped down, I forget which on that part. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/26 "2014-03-10T04:03:43Z")
John Lithgow, straight jacket. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/27 "2014-03-10T04:33:55Z")
[Northwest 85](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlines_Flight_85) was a 747 that experienced rudder hardover at 35000 feet and had to fly 2 hours back to Anchorage with the pilot standing on the rudder pedal to keep the plane from going into a death spiral and using asymmetrical engine thrust to steer. They managed to land safely with no injuries. [Air Transat 236](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236) ran out of fuel at cruising altitude over the Atlantic due to a leak in the lines and had to glide into an emergency landing in the Azores. [TACA 110](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110) experienced a double-engine flameout at 16500 feet due to severe weather and water/hail ingestion and had to make an emergency glide landing on a levee. No injuries. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/28 "2014-03-10T04:50:09Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Japan Airlines 123 lost the vertical stabilizer and all hydraulic systems due to an explosive decompression due to an improper repair. They amazingly managed to more or less control it for a time but unlike the United 232 they lost control and it fell out of they sky before they could line it up with a runway. > > Lauda Air 004 the crew lost control due to an uncommanded deployment of a thrust reverser in mid flight. Slight correction on Japan Air 123: It struck Mount Takamagahara while it was was attempting to return to Narita. If they could have avoided the mountain there’s a good chance the plane would have made it to an airfield, although there still would have been casualties. **Korean Air Flight 858** was destroyed in mid-air by a bomb allegedly planted by North Korean agents. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/29 "2014-03-10T05:55:26Z")
[This one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Orient_Airlines_Flight_705) broke up in midair in 1963. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/30 "2014-03-10T11:47:25Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > John Lithgow, straight jacket. That was the '80’s movie; **GusNSpot** is referring to the much earlier Twilight Zone TV show episode that inspired it. For the OP’s question, I’ll offer [Air Transat Flight 236,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236) which developed a mid-flight fuel leak due to the wrong part being installed in an engine. Pilots were slow to recognize that they were dealing with a leak; eventually they diverted to the Azores but ran out of the fuel along the way, gliding the last 70 miles or so to a high-speed no-flaps landing that flatted all the tires on the main gear. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Merton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Frank\_Merton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Merton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/31 "2014-03-10T11:51:06Z")
Fascinating material; makes me want to stay off planes except other ways of getting places are no better. By the way, what does it matter – I just as dead if it happened during takeoff or landing than any other time, although I understand they are far more dangerous times. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/32 "2014-03-10T17:21:40Z")
Turkish Airlines 981 depressurized and fell apart over France in 1974; it was at the time the worst air disaster ever, later surpassed by the Tenerife disaster. The reason was that the DC-10’s cargo door was designed with a flaw in it that allowed it to burst open at high altitude. The cargo hold collapsed and the fuselage burst open. The same thing happened to American Airlines 96 in 1972, but fortunately the damage did not sever the hydraulic control lines and the pilots, with considerable difficulty, got the plan down safely. In the case of Turkish 981 the pilots could not command any control surface and no recovery was possible. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/33 "2014-03-10T18:25:22Z")
[Helios Airways Flight 522](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522) was an odd case. Because the cabin pressure control system was left in “manual” mode after some maintenance, AND the crew on the subsequent ignored a series of alarms as they climbed to cruise ailtitude. Some time after ascending through 28,000 feet, the cabin pressure dropped low enough to render everyone on board unconscious. two hours later, two fighter jets from the Hellenic Air Force intercepted it and observed the copilot slumped over the controls. Twenty minutes after that, they observed one of the flight attendants in the cockpit, attempting to regain control of the plane. The engines quit due to fuel starvation shortly after that, and the plane crashed, killing all aboard. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/34 "2014-03-11T07:07:26Z")
Knute Rockne (he who turned college football into a professional sport) was famously killed in a crash due to failure of the main spar (the stick that (kept) the wing from folding). After that, no wooden spars on paying passenger planes. That was 1931. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/35 "2014-03-11T07:15:54Z")
Air France 447 was a gotcha on a couple of layers - the biggie was the pilots either didn’t know the autopilot had switched into a mode which would allow them to kill the plane. Modern autopilots prevent excessive control inputs, limit engine power settings, etc. When the autopilot detected the different readings between pitot tubes, it gave up and switched to a more-or-less manual mode - something the pilots had possibly not experienced in 10 years or so. Now, they can screw up, put it in a stall/spin and never suspect they did. Here’s a handy link for those interested in aircraft hiccups: [http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/index.aspx](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/index.aspx) “Incident” is anything which cost more than a trivial amount to repair, but neither plane nor those aboard were seriously injured. “Accident” is a wee bit more serious… Specifying “Fatal” gets you the good ones. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/36 "2014-03-11T12:50:30Z")
As for why most civilian airplane crashes happen during takeoff and landing, it’s for the simple reason that there is a lot less for the plane to crash into at 35,000 feet. Which is to say, they have more time to recover from system malfunctions, engine failure, etc. than they would while on approach to land. Having time to call someone on the ground for advice can help quite a bit in many of the weirder situations. Incidentally, one of the more amusing airliner mishap stories I’ve seen so far has to be the [The 1963 Aeroflot Tu-124 ditching in the Neva River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_124_ditching_in_Neva_River), if only for the fact that it’s the only time I can recall reading about an airliner being towed to safety by a steamboat. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/37 "2014-03-11T14:45:45Z")
Surprised no-one has mentioned [British Airways Flight 5390](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390) yet - one of the windscreen panels blew out at altitude, the air pressure caused the pilot to be half-forced out of the cockpit. He was held by the remaining flight crew until they managed to land the plane safely, and all on board survived. The aircraft concerned, a BAC 111, had had the windscreen in question replaced with the incorrect bolts. In addition, the design of the aircraft was such that the bolts were on the outside, increasing the pressure on them. ---
**Author:** ![BanderaFever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BanderaFever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BanderaFever)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218/38 "2014-03-12T15:16:51Z")
More information/photos on the mysterious disappearance of Pan Am Flight 7 (cruising in beautiful weather over the Pacific) can be found on the following Facebook page… RomanceoftheSkies [https://www.facebook.com/RomanceoftheSkies](https://www.facebook.com/RomanceoftheSkies) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-often-has-an-airliner-failed-at-cruising-altitude/683218.md?page=1)