# How old are English wedding vows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 11, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455 "2015-04-11T23:05:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/1 "2015-04-11T23:05:40Z")
Just watched an episode of Outlander. It takes place in the 18th century. In the wedding, the vows were word for word what is used today. Is this likely, or is it just entertainment? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/2 "2015-04-11T23:13:19Z")
Assuming you’re referring to the whole “Dearly beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God…Wilt thou have this woman to thy wedded wife, to live together after God’s ordinance in the holy estate of Matrimony? Wilt thou love her, comfort her, honour, and keep her, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all other, keep thee only unto her, solong as ye both shall live?..I M. take thee N. to my wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part…” and so forth, that comes from the [Book of Common Prayer](http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1662/marriage.pdf) and goes back to at least 1662. ---
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/3 "2015-04-11T23:13:52Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > Just watched an episode of Outlander. It takes place in the 18th century. In the wedding, the vows were word for word what is used today. Is this likely, or is it just entertainment? I would imagine it would depend on whether your talking English American or English European. English American might be more protestant while English Europe might be more Catholic ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/4 "2015-04-11T23:20:16Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Assuming you’re referring to the whole “Dearly beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God…Wilt thou have this woman to thy wedded wife, > to live together after God’s ordinance in the holy estate of Matrimony? Wilt thou love her, comfort her, honour, and keep her, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all other, keep thee only unto her, solong as ye both shall live?..I M. take thee N. to my wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part…” and so forth, that comes from the [Book of Common Prayer](http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1662/marriage.pdf) and goes back to at least 1662. That’s it MEBuckner. The wedding took place in Scotland. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/5 "2015-04-12T01:48:20Z")
I believe this is actually an important plot point. Short version: during the religious settlement after the Glorious Revolution, the Church of Scotland was taken over by the Presbyterians who still run it today. They don’t use the Common Book of Prayer and I believe have a completely different marriage ceremony. During the first half of the 18th century, however, there was still a sizable Episcopalian minority who dated back to when the Stuart monarchs tried to move the Church of Scotland over to a more Anglican practice during the 17th century. The Episcopalian minority _did_ use a Scottish version of the Common Book of Prayer and so, yes, would have had the whole familiar “dearly beloved…” marriage ceremony. I haven’t seen the show and this is all from history, but I suppose I’ll put it in a box to avoid possibly spoiling the greater story arc: The reason why you don’t hear too much about Scottish Episcopalians these days is that they tended to support the Jacobite pretenders. During and after the uprisings, they more or less lost the toleration they had been granted during the 1690’s religious settlement and dwindled away to near nothing. The characters in the show going through the wedding ceremony from the Common Book of Prayer is probably a pretty good indication that they’re Episcopalians and thus probably Jacobites and thus things are not going to go well for them in the not too distant future… ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/6 "2015-04-12T02:05:17Z")
> **[Book of Common Prayer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer)** > > The Book of Common Prayer (BCP) is the name given to a number of related prayer books used in the Anglican Communion and by other Christian churches historically related to Anglicanism. The first prayer book, published in 1549 in the reign of King Edward VI of England, was a product of the English Reformation following the break with Rome. The work of 1549 was the first prayer book to include the complete forms of service for daily and Sunday worship in English. It contained Morning Prayer, Ev... A Wikipedia article on the Book of Common Prayer. Ten years ago on the SDMB we had a series of “Finish the…” stories in which posters worked together writing what were basically novels. I participated in several, including on called “Finish the Wooden Navy” story. Think Hornblower or Jack Aubrey. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304529&page=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304529&page=3) In post 107 there was a funeral at sea, set aboard a British vessel. I happened to write it and wanted the wording to be authentic. I asked the dean at the Episcopal cathedral I attend if the church had any copies of really old prayer books, and told him what I was writing. He told me I needed the 1789 BCP but I explained that was the first American BCP, and I needed the British. He helped me find a link to the 1662 BCP, which is what would have still been in use in the early 1800’s. If you look at this one and realize for how long it was in use, it’s not surprising the phrases are so familiar. [The 1662 Book of Common Prayer Website](http://www.eskimo.com/~lhowell/bcp1662/) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/7 "2015-04-12T09:08:50Z")
My daughter is getting married next month and has chosen (from the many alternatives) the old form, including this: _N. take thee N. to my wedded husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth._ ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/8 "2015-04-12T13:27:06Z")
If it was a Church of Scotland service, it would have used the [1645 Directory for Public Worship](http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_standards/index.html?mainframe=/documents/wcf_standards/p369-direct_pub_worship.html). That was deliberately far less prescriptive than either the English Book of Common Prayer or the 1637 Scottish Book of Common Prayer and only the most crucial bits of wedding ceremony (the vows etc) were laid down. Those bits were completely different to the more familiar forms of wording in the Book of Common Prayer, which is what the Scottish Episcopalian Church would have used. It should also be remembered that Scots law was famously lax in permitting non-religious weddings. Hence the fame of Gretna Green. But despite having neither read the novel nor seen the TV series, I have a hunch that we might be overthinking things. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-are-english-wedding-vows/717455/9 "2015-04-13T20:48:16Z")
Mine date back to 1988 😉