# How old is the stereotype that British food is not a very distinguished cuisine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983 "2014-04-13T02:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/1 "2014-04-13T02:08:03Z")
I’m 55 and for as long as I can remember the UK has been noted for not having very appealing (overall) cuisine compared to other countries, with Scottish cuisine apparently being the being the pinnacle of bad food. I’m aware that in the past few decades British food has (I’ve heard) improved remarkably with the addition of international cuisine influences from immigrants and British foodies, and that stereotype is no longer as applicable as it used to be. I’m interested in \*when \*that bad/undistinguished food stereotype started and why. I have to assume that it’s not hundreds of years old. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/2 "2014-04-13T02:10:18Z")
My guess would be since the invention of corned beef and cabbage or hummus. Whoever thought cooked cabbage or chewed lamb is a food should be shot. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/3 "2014-04-13T02:16:28Z")
It’s a defense mechanism against foreign invasion. England has rarely been invaded, and Scotland even less often. And Scotland, only by the English, against whom a cuisine-based defense is useless. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/4 "2014-04-13T02:25:00Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I have to assume that it’s not hundreds of years old. [It is.](http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/mushy.html) It dates back at least to Victorian times, and I’d be willing to bet that William the Conqueror bitched about British “cuisine.” ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/5 "2014-04-13T02:45:00Z")
I’ll leave the reasons for the undistinguished cuisine to others. However I have been fairly reliably informed that the reason that UK pub food is generally better and more available than restaurant cuisine, is due to the history of pubs as coaching inns. The coaching inns had to compete for custom, and part of that competition was the provision of good food. That said, while traditional English and Scottish food is considered fairly plain to our lucky multicultural palates, it is very difficult to do properly as it generally revolves around the meat and three veg type of dish. Now, for that to be good, it has to be made with fresh ingredients and cooked with care. When it’s done right, (and a nod to the Scots here for their amazing produce) it’s magnificent because the food is allowed to speak for itself. Unfortunately, the modern convenience version of it doesn’t translate well - frozen veg and chips and something with orange crumbs from Iceland. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/6 "2014-04-13T02:50:28Z")
Apple pie. Roast beef and Yorkshire pudding. Sunday roast? Full English breakfast? ������������������������ I hate to have to defend the old colonial master, but come on. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/7 "2014-04-13T02:57:51Z")
World War II and the rationing during and after that? The stereotype is then perpetuated by less-travelled folk and incurious types. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/8 "2014-04-13T02:59:07Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > My guess would be since the invention of corned beef and cabbage or hummus. 😕 Hummus is Greek, I believe, certainly not a traditional British dish. I do not think corned beef is originally or very distinctively British either. Apart from the canned stuff (which is really quite different), I never ate or, AFAIK, saw, corned beef until I moved to America. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/9 "2014-04-13T03:06:31Z")
George Orwell has a [really great (and hilarious) essay on the subject](http://orwell.ru/library/articles/cooking/english/e_dec). What his argument boils down to is that in most countries, high end restaurants are where you find that culture’s best food; for example, in a fancy French restaurant you’d find high quality French food. In England, all the expensive restaurants are either some other country’s food (like a French or Italian restaurant in London), or are awful. The best English cooking is found out in country cottages with homemade trifle and steak and kidney pies, but tourists don’t have access to that - hence the bad reputation. In my own experience, I can definitely say that in Ireland, the worst food I had was in the most expensive restaurant, and the best was my aunt’s dinners - still supposedly “bad” Irish food, but it was amazing. The problem with this, as Orwell points out, is no one who has no relatives there (aka the people you want to impress) will ever eat the good food. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/10 "2014-04-13T03:18:03Z")
The stereotype was accurate when I visited the UK in 2013. Before that I cannot say. I will make an exception for English bacon, however. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/11 "2014-04-13T03:20:55Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > In my own experience, I can definitely say that in Ireland, the worst food I had was in the most expensive restaurant, and the best was my aunt’s dinners - still supposedly “bad” Irish food, but it was amazing. The problem with this, as Orwell points out, is no one who has no relatives there (aka the people you want to impress) will ever eat the good food. Oh yes, my Granny’s cooking and baking: Egg and bacon pie Scones - sweet and cheese Singing Hinnies Spotted Dick (oh yes!) Did I mention the egg and bacon pie? Dark fruit cake (always decorated according to the celebration) Sultana cake Battenberg cake Eccles cake Treacle tart Gingerbread cake Jam roly poly Rhubarb and custard Eve’s pudding Treacle toffee (must be kept in the airing cupboard and broken into pieces to give to your grandchildren) Tansy and fools Really, did I mention the egg and bacon pie? All washed down with lashings of tea and Enid Blyton. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/12 "2014-04-13T03:21:39Z")
They gave the world spotted dick and mad-cow disease. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/13 "2014-04-13T03:23:43Z")
You know, for my money, the English do breakfasts better than just about anywhere else I’ve been, save maybe a full-tilt Deep South breakfast in the US. British bacon is awesome stuff, and I wish I could get it in the US without going to a specialty store and paying 5x what it ought to cost. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/14 "2014-04-13T03:26:23Z")
I have to admit some of the British – and Irish – pubs in Bangkok do great Sunday breakfasts. But beans for breakfast? Never!! ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/15 "2014-04-13T03:28:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You know, for my money, the English do breakfasts better than just about anywhere else I’ve been, save maybe a full-tilt Deep South breakfast in the US. > > British bacon is awesome stuff, and I wish I could get it in the US without going to a specialty store and paying 5x what it ought to cost. Hell yes! A full English breakfast is absolutely wonderful, as is a ploughman’s lunch. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/16 "2014-04-13T03:35:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > World War II and the rationing during and after that? The stereotype is then perpetuated by less-travelled folk and incurious types. I think this is it. BBC had a lighthearted documentary series called Supersizers in which the two hosts lived and ate as people did during different historic British periods. I may be remembering this wrong, but I think they mentioned that the British reputation for bland food was a result of the post-WWII rationing and general austerity. Butter, sugar, cheese, and meat were rationed until the mid-1950s. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/17 "2014-04-13T03:36:28Z")
> [@bathsheba](#): > > Oh yes, my Granny’s cooking and baking: > > Egg and bacon pie > Scones - sweet and cheese > Singing Hinnies > Spotted Dick (oh yes!) > Did I mention the egg and bacon pie? > Dark fruit cake (always decorated according to the celebration) > Sultana cake > Battenberg cake > Eccles cake > Treacle tart > Gingerbread cake > Jam roly poly > Rhubarb and custard > Eve’s pudding > Treacle toffee (must be kept in the airing cupboard and broken into pieces to give to your grandchildren) > Tansy and fools > Really, did I mention the egg and bacon pie? > All washed down with lashings of tea and Enid Blyton. Nothing here sounds remotely edible. Putting meat in a pie is like stuffing a turkey with fruitcake. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/18 "2014-04-13T03:39:00Z")
So no chicken pot pies for you? Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/19 "2014-04-13T03:42:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I have to admit some of the British – and Irish – pubs in Bangkok do great Sunday breakfasts. But beans for breakfast? Never!! Don’t be too hasty there. About once every 4 months or so the wife will crank out a full English breakfast around here. Beans have to be part of it. We do everything except black pudding, which is an offense before God and the reason the Brits don’t have an empire anymore. Delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/20 "2014-04-13T03:45:53Z")
I’m not a beans fan at the best of times except for refried beans in Mexican food. Beans has no place in anyone’s breakfast! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=2)