# How old is the stereotype that British food is not a very distinguished cuisine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983 "2014-04-13T02:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/41 "2014-04-13T11:18:21Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > George Orwell has a [really great (and hilarious) essay on the subject](http://orwell.ru/library/articles/cooking/english/e_dec). What his argument boils down to is that in most countries, high end restaurants are where you find that culture’s best food; for example, in a fancy French restaurant you’d find high quality French food. In England, all the expensive restaurants are either some other country’s food (like a French or Italian restaurant in London), or are awful. The best English cooking is found out in country cottages with homemade trifle and steak and kidney pies, but tourists don’t have access to that - hence the bad reputation. But isn’t that just the usual Hobbit crap that every society likes to believe about itself? Sure, those outsiders look better with all their fancy stuff, but they can’t really compete with our often overlooked humble and deep-rooted awesomeness… ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/42 "2014-04-13T11:31:37Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You know, for my money, the English do breakfasts better than just about anywhere else I’ve been, save maybe a full-tilt Deep South breakfast in the US. > > British bacon is awesome stuff, and I wish I could get it in the US without going to a specialty store and paying 5x what it ought to cost. “To eat well in England you should have breakfast three times a day.” - W.Somerset Maugham > [@silenus](#): > > Don’t be too hasty there. About once every 4 months or so the wife will crank out a full English breakfast around here. Beans have to be part of it. We do everything except black pudding, which is an offense before God and the reason the Brits don’t have an empire anymore. > > Delicious. My local chip shop does battered black pudding. As for Scottish food, there is also the porridge, the deep-fried Mara bar, the strange habit of the Glasgow chippy of mixing brown sauce and vinegar, and Irn-Bru is a perfectly servicable industrial dye. The Welsh have their rarebit. And very nice chips at a shop I once visited in Prestatyn. I’ve never heard of a pie with blood in it. Steak and Ale, yes; Blood and Kidney, no. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/43 "2014-04-13T11:37:02Z")
> [@dofe](#): > > I think this is it. BBC had a lighthearted documentary series called Supersizers in which the two hosts lived and ate as people did during different historic British periods. I may be remembering this wrong, but I think they mentioned that the British reputation for bland food was a result of the post-WWII rationing and general austerity. Butter, sugar, cheese, and meat were rationed until the mid-1950s. Paint me unconvinced. Rationing was much more drastic on the continent, and no such bad rap was incurred. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/44 "2014-04-13T11:42:25Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > As for Scottish food, there is also the porridge, **the deep-fried Mara bar** , the strange habit of the Glasgow chippy of mixing brown sauce and vinegar, and Irn-Bru is a perfectly servicable industrial dye. Ooh, deep-fried Mars bars are as tasty as they are bad for you. There used to be a fish and chips shop in Bangkok that sold those even though the owner/operator was English and not Scottish. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/45 "2014-04-13T11:55:14Z")
> [@bathsheba](#): > > NB The [Restoration episode](http://www.genevievevalentine.com/2013/04/the-supersizers-restoration/) in which each of the seven courses was pretty much offal and claret with a claret chaser was an absolute gem. There are in fact few offals mentioned, but a lot of meat. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/46 "2014-04-13T12:14:52Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > 😕 > Hummus is Greek, I believe, … [No it is eastern Mediterranean, Arab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummus) it seems in origin. Even the name is Arabic, not Greek. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/47 "2014-04-13T12:20:00Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Don’t care enough to look it up, actually. No wonder it’s taking longer than we thought! ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/48 "2014-04-13T12:49:00Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > But isn’t that just the usual Hobbit crap that every society likes to believe about itself? > > Sure, those outsiders look better with all their fancy stuff, but they can’t really compete with our often overlooked humble and deep-rooted awesomeness… To a certain extent, yes, but the really weird thing in Ireland (which can kind of be extended in some ways to England) is the awfulness of the expensive restaurants. It’s honestly weird - it seems like almost every expensive place is overly fried, dried out, tasteless, and just really nasty. Of course, this isn’t meant as a blanket statement - there are plenty of great pricey restaurants as well - but the majority are terrible, and tourists can’t really tell the difference when they walk in. So it’s not so much the amazing home cooking (although, as is mentioned upthread, it’s pretty great) but the contrast between the cottage food and the upscale stuff. Oh, and one more thing on Irish cooking - they have really, really fresh food. When I come back to the US after being there a few weeks, even buying farm fresh organic whatever, the quality difference between the most special, expensive American vegetable, and the normal supermarket Irish stuff is clear. What this means is you don’t have to be a master chef to make a nice meal - the closer to the original raw form on the food the meal is, the better. Contrast this with cultures in inhospitable climates who have to become chef extraordinaires to make a palatable meal, and you see why the skill sets for different countries vary. For example, take France (not saying it’s a particularly bad climate, but it’s worse than Ireland): if you have a choice between cows and snails, you’re never going to learn how to make snails taste amazing. Oh, and meat pie hater? I . . . I don’t understand you. But that’s OK. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/49 "2014-04-13T13:58:22Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > As for Scottish food, there is also the porridge, the deep-fried Mara bar, the strange habit of the Glasgow chippy of mixing brown sauce and vinegar, and Irn-Bru is a perfectly servicable industrial dye. I have to come in here with a couple of corrections. Porridge, yes, and that is popular as a healthy choice these days throughout the UK. The deep-fried Mars bar is strictly a tourist gimmick. I don’t know a single Scottish person who’s ever had one. The only chippies I know that sell them are a couple right in the centre of Edinburgh, aimed at tourists. And it is very much Edinburgh chippies that mix brown sauce and vinegar, to produce the legendary chippy sauce. In Edinburgh you will always be offered “salt’n’sauce” on your chippy purchase; in Glasgow you will be offered “salt’n’vinegar”, and may even have to purchase a sachet of regular brown sauce if that is your preference. But those are all stereotypes. There is such a thing as really, really good Scottish food: Aberdeen Angus steak; venison and other game; salmon (of course); seafood and shellfish of top quality (that usually gets exported straight to the continent). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/50 "2014-04-13T14:15:40Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > seafood and shellfish of top quality (that usually gets exported straight to the continent). It’s not as bad as it used to be, but I am a bit irked that Scottish waters have world-class shellfish in them, and it’s not appreciated all that much here. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/51 "2014-04-13T14:25:26Z")
> [@dofe](#): > > I think this is it. BBC had a lighthearted documentary series called Supersizers in which the two hosts lived and ate as people did during different historic British periods… I love that show; such a shame they ran our of eras to cover. But as has been noted rationing was a lot worse on the Continent and the British reputation for bad food predates WWII. > [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > I believe corned beef and cabbage is supposed to be an irish dish. And it’s not even that! CB@C is as american as spaghetti and meatballs. IIRC Irish immigrants picked up the corned beef from their Jewish neighbours and substituted it for bacon. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Do you think that hummus is chewed lamb? I think it’s obvious Superhal was referring to _haggis_, not hummus. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/52 "2014-04-13T14:28:40Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > This is one of the most baffling blind spots that afflicts Americans. The savory pie should be a staple of American fast food just as it is in Australia. It is perfect for eating on the run, full of fat, carbohydrates and meat. It comes in an endless variety of forms. And it is delicious. This is true. When I was in Australia, food was generally quite expensive. Except you could pop into a bakery and get a meat pastie for almost nothing, and they were delicious. With the one slight hitch being that if you asked what the meat was, the universal reaction was a blank look from the proprietor and the puzzled answer “It’s meat” Made me think of Prachett’s CMOT Dibbler’s meat pies. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/53 "2014-04-13T14:29:44Z")
I didn’t have one cooking lesson at school, though I left in the late 70s. I guess things will have changed but I’d think that might have a bearing on previous (male) generations. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/54 "2014-04-13T14:42:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I > I think it’s obvious Superhal was referring to _haggis_, not hummus. That didn’t even occur to me. Makes a lot more sense, now. Still weird that on a list that included stuff like scones, gingerbread, rhubarb and custard, etc. he couldn’t find anything "remotely edible. I mean, scones are pretty standard here in the US (although they differ from their British counterparts a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/55 "2014-04-13T16:02:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think it’s obvious Superhal was referring to _haggis_, not hummus. Ha! Wasn’t obvious to me since he actually said “hummus” and I didn’t know that haggis was chewed lamb. Is haggis chewed lamb? :eek: He probably wonders why Americans are gobbling up this hummus stuff so much lately. And the vegetarians too! ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/56 "2014-04-13T16:08:58Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think it’s obvious Superhal was referring to _haggis_, not hummus. I did not think of haggis either. It’s clearly not that obvious. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is haggis chewed lamb? :eek: No. Though I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean. “Chewed” lamb? Like someone else chewed it before you? If he just means minced meats, I guess he’s never heard of meatloaf before? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/57 "2014-04-13T17:22:01Z")
Back in 2004 I spent a month traveling around Great Britain, staying in B&Bs and various pubs. I never had a bad meal the whole time I was there. I acquired a real taste for English bacon and really, really wish it weren’t so hard to find here in the States. I didn’t like their breakfast sausage, though. It tasted mealy, and I believe they use a fair bit of grain in it, unlike the States where it’s pretty much just meat and seasonings. Sticky toffee pudding is to die for, and clotted cream belongs on everything except meat and veggies. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/58 "2014-04-13T17:54:36Z")
As old as British food. The French are just across the Channel. Couldn’t Albion have learned _something_ from them? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/59 "2014-04-13T20:35:54Z")
The reference to “chippies” is confusing to this US poster … in the United States, the only way i’ve ever heard the term is as slang for “prostitute.” I suspect as used in this thread the meaning is different. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/60 "2014-04-13T20:41:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > The reference to “chippies” is confusing to this US poster … in the United States, the only way i’ve ever heard the term is as slang for “prostitute.” I suspect as used in this thread the meaning is different. The chippie is a fish and chip shop in UK English. It’s also a slang term for a carpenter, and I think actually can be used for a prostitute too, but that last is less common. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=4)