# How old is the stereotype that British food is not a very distinguished cuisine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983 "2014-04-13T02:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/61 "2014-04-13T20:51:42Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s a defense mechanism against foreign invasion. England has rarely been invaded, and Scotland even less often. And Scotland, only by the English, against whom a cuisine-based defense is useless. I have a theory that the reason for the British Empire was a search for better food. (And of course just about anywhere they went is going to have better food.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/62 "2014-04-13T20:54:02Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Ooh, deep-fried Mars bars are as tasty as they are bad for you. There used to be a fish and chips shop in Bangkok that sold those even though the owner/operator was English and not Scottish. When I was growing up, there was a place near my high school called “The Frying Scotsman”, whose owner and cook were Chinese. Served all sorts of Scottish food, including deep-fried mars bars. I never ordered one, but I did get fish and chips there regularly. The joke the kids told each other was that if the eponymous Scotsman wasn’t _doing_ the frying … :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/63 "2014-04-14T00:07:54Z")
re meat pies, there was a guy here in San Diego who sold Cornish Pasties – little lamb pies – and, dawgone they were great! He was a real and proper Cornishman, too, transplanted to Southern California. If that’s English Cooking, give me more! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/64 "2014-04-14T02:30:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > And then there’s the Scots with: haggis. It actually sounds worse than it is. And it’s AWFUL. Not sure what this says about me, but I thought the neeps and tatties (mashed rutabagas & potatoes) were far nastier than the haggis, which just tasted like really heavily peppered organ meat. Not great, but no more revolting than any other organ meat dish. Oh… [this place](http://www.theashvale.co.uk/) had pretty good fish and chips when I went there some 15 years ago. I also had the best steak I’ve had in my life at a hotel restaurant in Aberdeenshire, so the food’s not all bad. (been to quite a few expensive Dallas, Houston & Austin steak places, so I have a basis for comparison) Sticky toffee pudding is awesome. I wish I could get it here or reproduce it adequately. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/65 "2014-04-14T02:49:39Z")
I have only two data points to offer. My wife and I recently visited England (London, Bath, and Cornwall) and found the food to be fabulous. We were visiting with her sister and brother-in-law; her BIL is a Brit ex-pat, and those two have spent lots of time in England. Wife’s sister agreed with us that England no longer deserves the reputation, but noted that things had changed a LOT in the last 10 or 20 years on that score. We did enjoy a lot of the traditional Brit fare, too, but I can’t imagine living on that without all the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/66 "2014-04-14T03:14:39Z")
Weirdly, British meat pies as convenience, Greggs etc, are much less common here in Ireland. I find that sad. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/67 "2014-04-14T05:42:01Z")
My mother makes the best homemade chicken pot pie. She also makes a turkey one with Thanksgiving leftovers. I’ll be the serious one: **Superhal** , you’re probably thinking of _haggis_. Hummus is a dip made up of mashed chickpeas, tahini and olive oil, and usually garlic (or other types of spices or flavorings). It’s Middle Eastern, and it’s delicious. It’s usually eaten spread on pita bread, sometimes with some feta cheese added. I loves me some hummus – especially with tortilla chips. I think it tastes better than salsa, if you ask me! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/68 "2014-04-14T07:41:47Z")
The notion that pre-modern British food was just boiled meats is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Unless you’re calling lamb steaks stewed in beer, or lamb neck stewed in strongly-spiced meat broth, “boiled meat.” To pull just two Tudor recipes from my recipe book. And yes, they ate offal - have any of those criticising this aspect actually eaten in a high-end restaurant lately? The world’s best chefs have come back to realising there’s amazing tastes in unconventional meats. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/69 "2014-04-14T08:56:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Don’t be too hasty there. About once every 4 months or so the wife will crank out a full English breakfast around here. Beans have to be part of it. We do everything except black pudding, which is an offense before God and the reason the Brits don’t have an empire anymore. > > Delicious. This always confuses me. Do people (admitedly it does seem to be mostly Americans saying it) not realise that most of Europe has a variant of Black Pudding? Here in Sweden it is literally called “Blood Pudding” (blodpudding). Hell, they even have “svartsoppa”, a soup made with blood. > **[Blood sausage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sausage)** > > A blood sausage, also known as a blutwurst sausage, is a sausage filled with blood that is cooked or dried and mixed with a filler until it is thick enough to solidify when cooled. Most commonly, the blood of pigs, sheep, lamb, cow, chicken, or goose is used. > In Europe and the Americas, typical fillers include meat, fat, suet, bread, cornmeal, onion, chestnuts, barley, oatmeal, and buckwheat. On the Iberian Peninsula and in Latin America and Asia, fillers are often made with rice. Sweet varian... > **[Svartsoppa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svartsoppa)** > > Svartsoppa ("black soup") is a soup consumed traditionally and mostly in the province of Skåne in southern Sweden. The main ingredient is goose blood (or sometimes pig blood). It is often eaten before the goose dish at the Mårtens gås or Mårten gås dinner on the 10 November, the eve of Saint Martin (11 November), a surviving remnant of the Roman Catholic feast dedicated to Martin of Tours. Goose is traditionally eaten at this feast over large parts of Europe, with associations to the folklore Bl... Why do the Brits seem to get the blame? Talking of Swedes, I get my nation’s cuisine mocked by quite a few people here, yet what is their claim to fame? The world’s blandest meatball? The usual “evidence” for bad British cuisine is that you don’t go to a “British restaurant” in foreign countries, they just don’t exist. The obvious reply to that is that we snuck them in under the radar by calling them “British Pubs”. I don’t think I’ve been to a city in the world where I couldn’t get my nation’s cuisine. Unlike Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/70 "2014-04-14T08:58:14Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I didn’t have one cooking lesson at school, though I left in the late 70s. > > I guess things will have changed but I’d think that might have a bearing on previous (male) generations. I was taught to cook in “Home Economics” class in Middle School, which I attended from the ages of 9 to 12, which would mean 1983-1986. I distinctly remember learning how to cook Cottage Pie and Apple Crumble. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/71 "2014-04-14T09:01:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The notion that pre-modern British food was just boiled meats is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Unless you’re calling lamb steaks stewed in beer, or lamb neck stewed in strongly-spiced meat broth, “boiled meat.” To pull just two Tudor recipes from my recipe book. > > And yes, they ate offal - have any of those criticising this aspect actually eaten in a high-end restaurant lately? The world’s best chefs have come back to realising there’s amazing tastes in unconventional meats. I worked for a month in North Eastern France (Vallenciennes). I clearly remember being served boiled Chicken and Spinach in the canteen. Clichés are not always true. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/72 "2014-04-14T13:55:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Why do the Brits seem to get the blame? Probably because it’s the most familiar to Americans, I suppose. That said, I don’t really hear people talk much about black pudding or blaming the Brits for it. In my household, Polish _kiszka_ was the blood sausage variant, made of blood (usually pork, sometimes beef), pork, sometimes organ meat, and barley or buckwheat groats, and spices. As a kid, it was one of my favorite Saturday morning breakfasts, a plate of kiszka, fried sunny-side up eggs, and rye bread. I didn’t know what it was until I was about eight or nine, but, at that point, I didn’t care. There is also the German _blutwurst_ and the Hungarian _véres hurka_. As you say, it’s not a particularly British custom. It seems to me that pretty much every pork-eating culture makes something edible with every part of the pig, including the blood. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/73 "2014-04-14T14:24:06Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > When I was growing up, there was a place near my high school called “The Frying Scotsman”, whose owner and cook were Chinese. Served all sorts of Scottish food, including deep-fried mars bars. I never ordered one, but I did get fish and chips there regularly. > > The joke the kids told each other was that if the eponymous Scotsman wasn’t _doing_ the frying … :eek: There was an identical named shop near my school. Also run by a Chinese guy. Are we former neighbors? Does ‘fags and mags’ or ‘news and chews’ mean anything to you? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/74 "2014-04-14T14:34:25Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Probably because it’s the most familiar to Americans, I suppose. That said, I don’t really hear people talk much about black pudding or blaming the Brits for it. In my household, Polish _kiszka_ was the blood sausage variant, made of blood (usually pork, sometimes beef), pork, sometimes organ meat, and barley or buckwheat groats, and spices. As a kid, it was one of my favorite Saturday morning breakfasts, a plate of kiszka, fried sunny-side up eggs, and rye bread. I didn’t know what it was until I was about eight or nine, but, at that point, I didn’t care. There is also the German _blutwurst_ and the Hungarian _véres hurka_. As you say, it’s not a particularly British custom. It seems to me that pretty much every pork-eating culture makes something edible with every part of the pig, including the blood. Couple of examples from this forum for you. Just as examples, like: Comparing Britain with Spain, somehow managing to go on about “blood sausage” without realising that Spain has its own variant and blaming us for “Boiled Bread”, whatever the fuck that is. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15200784&postcount=20](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15200784&postcount=20) “Blood pudding” gets pulled out as an example of why Britain’s cuisine is worse than everyone else’s. Maybe it is just our black pudding is worse than everyone else’s black pudding? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13609093&postcount=62](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13609093&postcount=62) Seriously, if I could be arsed I could go and find many, many more. Just about any time different countries’ cuisine is compared on this forum black pudding is brought up as an example as to why the UK’s is worse than anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/75 "2014-04-14T14:38:59Z")
Although it may have got started earlier, I suspect WWII is largely responsible for the stereotype being so well-embedded in American culture. The war brought together: a) a particularly bad era for British food and b) large numbers of visiting Americans, c) thrown together from all over the US. However awful the food was, the stereotype would be reinforced by the novelty of the experience, by group in-jokes and bitching sessions and by post-war story-telling (e.g. you’re not actually going to reminisce with your buddies about what it felt like to bayonet that guy, but you can all laugh about the watery stews and gritty bread). Add in ex-servicemen finding common ground (“you were near Oxford? We were in Yorkshire - did they call rancid gristle pork chop there too?”) and return visits with the family in the fifties to find that rationing was still in place and the food was still fairly rank: the stereotype starts to reinforce itself. Entertainers looking for laughs and/or authenticity when “doing” WWII can refer to the awful food safe in the knowledge that their audience will get it. “Funny 'cos it’s true.” Once the stereotype becomes embedded in the media, it becomes almost self-referential (how many people in, say, the 70s who believed Brits do bad food had eaten British food as opposed to hearing people joke about it?) and so widespread as to go without challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/76 "2014-04-14T14:43:23Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > This always confuses me. Do people (admitedly it does seem to be mostly Americans saying it) not realise that most of Europe has a variant of Black Pudding? Here in Sweden it is literally called “Blood Pudding” (blodpudding). Hell, they even have “svartsoppa”, a soup made with blood. > > [Blood sausage - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sausage) > [Svartsoppa - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svartsoppa) > > Why do the Brits seem to get the blame? Talking of Swedes, I get my nation’s cuisine mocked by quite a few people here, yet what is their claim to fame? The world’s blandest meatball? The usual “evidence” for bad British cuisine is that you don’t go to a “British restaurant” in foreign countries, they just don’t exist. The obvious reply to that is that we snuck them in under the radar by calling them “British Pubs”. I don’t think I’ve been to a city in the world where I couldn’t get my nation’s cuisine. Unlike Sweden. Well the Scandanavians seem to have a better sense of nomenclature. What is arguably the most disgusting Scandanavian food is wonderfully named: “lutefisk.” The beautiful sounds of a lute accompanied by a fish, what could be better, right? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/77 "2014-04-14T14:56:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well the Scandanavians seem to have a better sense of nomenclature. What is arguably the most disgusting Scandanavian food is wonderfully named: “lutefisk.” The beautiful sounds of a lute accompanied by a fish, what could be better, right? Ain’t got nothing on “Surströmming” for full-on Scandimadness though. And did you get the bit where they called black pudding “Blood Pudding” here? At least we hide the blood bit … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/78 "2014-04-14T15:21:23Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > There was an identical named shop near my school. Also run by a Chinese guy. Are we former neighbors? Does ‘fags and mags’ or ‘news and chews’ mean anything to you? The shop I’m thinking of was near Eglinton and Mt. Pleasant (well, a few blocks south on Mt. Pleasant) in Toronto. This was many, many years ago - I’m scared to think how many … late 1970s early 1980s. Long since dissapeared. Either this rings a bell, or perhaps there was a worldwide chain of these places! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/79 "2014-04-14T15:40:52Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Ain’t got nothing on “Surströmming” for full-on Scandimadness though. I will provide the inevitable escalation to the Icelandic [hákarl](http://satwcomic.com/nordics-like-fish). I will admit to occasionally ribbing Brits about conquering half the planet in their quest for decent take-out, but I don’t make fun of their current culinary efforts. Sweden, on the other hand…well, I’ve been there in the not-too-distant past, and as far as I’m concerned, their food is still on the mock-at-will list. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/80 "2014-04-14T15:45:05Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I will provide the inevitable escalation to the Icelandic [hákarl](http://satwcomic.com/nordics-like-fish). I’ve actually had that. My project manager is Icelandic and brought some back as a joke for everyone to try. It starts off just tasting like generic fish but then this ammonia-type aftertaste just starts and just will not go away, no matter how much vodka you drink. Very strange stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=5)