# How old is the stereotype that British food is not a very distinguished cuisine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983 "2014-04-13T02:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/81 "2014-04-14T15:57:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As you say, it’s not a particularly British custom. It seems to me that pretty much every pork-eating culture makes something edible with every part of the pig, including the blood. Just for the record, I may be one of the few on this board who has made real black pudding. My first job out of school was in a proper nose-to-tail butchers in the north-east of England. Thursday was black-pudding day as we bought the pigs at the Wednesday market and slaughtered them that afternoon. They were bled and the blood cooled overnight. I then took out the clots and mixed by hand the spices, barley and back-fat. Then baked slowly in large square pans in a cooling bread-oven overnight. Not a job for the squeamish but the smell and taste of the fresh cooked pudding was wonderful. A really good butchers, now sadly defunct but their animal husbandry and meat quality was stunning. Swaledale lambs would be running free-range one day and chops the next, and _nowt_ was wasted. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/82 "2014-04-14T16:46:41Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Ain’t got nothing on “Surströmming” for full-on Scandimadness though. Yeah, lutefisk is, from what I’ve had, pretty bland and inoffensive. I get the sense that some preparations must vary, as I’ve heard of people calling it foul and smelly, but to me, it wasn’t so. Surströmming, on the other hand, lived up to every bit and moreso of the hype. It is by far the foulest foodstuff I’ve ever ingested although, I must admit, I could see myself getting used to it after repeated exposures. I’m in no hurry to scare some up, but if I ever find myself in Sweden at the right time of year, I would seek out a surströmming fest. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/83 "2014-04-14T16:59:37Z")
I’d say it started when Britain expanded its empire and the subjucated didn’t think much of the spice-free stuff, especially since it was probably not in its optimum condition when shipped halfway across the world. If your cuisine consists mostly of meat and two veg with some herbs (which don’t work as well dried as spices do), that won’t transport brilliantly internationally. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/84 "2014-04-14T17:15:13Z")
Calvin Trillin speculates that British food got its bad rap after the tendency to boil everything for 8 hours just in case Lady Agatha forgot her dentures. But even discounting all the jokes and tropes, does England have anything that can remotely be called a cuisine in the grander sense? Other than “boil everything”? Or is everything thing decent to eat imported? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/85 "2014-04-14T17:15:50Z")
No link, etc. - but I vaguely recall from something I either read or watched that England and France were equally pedestrian in their food until the Victorian era. At that point the French started developing high cuisine, while the English were avoiding such distractions. The example given was Chateaubriand steak - done quite well instead of just boiling it. I travel to the UK regularly on business and have great food nowadays. There was a time when I was younger that hit the evil double whammy of university cafeteria food in England. Ugh, that was beyond vile, and not a drop of tabasco to help (I started bringing bottle to meals). ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/86 "2014-04-14T17:20:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I have a theory that the reason for the British Empire was a search for better food. Why do you think they tried so hard to hang on to India? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/87 "2014-04-14T17:25:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Calvin Trillin speculates that British food got its bad rap after the tendency to boil everything for 8 hours just in case Lady Agatha forgot her dentures. > > But even discounting all the jokes and tropes, does England have anything that can remotely be called a cuisine in the grander sense? Other than “boil everything”? Or is everything thing decent to eat imported? Yes and pretty much all of it doesn’t involve boiling (except maybe potatoes when being prepared for something else, like roast potatoes or the mash for a cottage pie). ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/88 "2014-04-14T18:48:04Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > No link, etc. - but I vaguely recall from something I either read or watched that England and France were equally pedestrian in their food until the Victorian era. At that point the French started developing high cuisine, while the English were avoiding such distractions. The example given was Chateaubriand steak - done quite well instead of just boiling it. > > I travel to the UK regularly on business and have great food nowadays. There was a time when I was younger that hit the evil double whammy of university cafeteria food in England. Ugh, that was beyond vile, and not a drop of tabasco to help (I started bringing bottle to meals). I think that a lot of student halls of residence haven’t moved on with the rest of Britain when it comes to food stereotypes. My undergrad halls did the odd nice dish (largely something which didn’t require spices or herbs to be nice; I appreciated the fry-ups for breakfast) but the bulk of it was bland, boiled and/or dry. The student union cafe did a nice chips and curry sauce though. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/89 "2014-04-14T19:02:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Calvin Trillin speculates that British food got its bad rap after the tendency to boil everything for 8 hours just in case Lady Agatha forgot her dentures. > > But even discounting all the jokes and tropes, does England have anything that can remotely be called a cuisine in the grander sense? Other than “boil everything”? Or is everything thing decent to eat imported? Of course it does. Unless you consider potatoes to be imported, in which case Italy is also out, with all the tomatoes. Have you ever eaten: Shepherd’s pie (or cottage pie; same dish, but with beef instead of lamb and with a different pattern on the mash) A full English breakfast A Sunday roast - fairly similar to a Thanksgiving roast, from what I hear A Cornish pasty - these vary a lot, but even the crap ones are OK Toad in the hole - ignore the name, it’s a sausage in a Yorkshire pudding, which is basically wheaty batter risen around the sausage Scones, jam and cream Any number of delicious jams Eton mess Steak and kidney pudding. Americans often call this kidney pudding. Why? Various other meat pies Sticky toffee pudding Apple (or whatever) crumble Bread and butter pudding (doesn’t taste like you’d expect it to). I’ll stop there for brevity. We definitely best the rest of Europe when it comes to hot desserts. The rest of the world, come to that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/90 "2014-04-14T19:03:26Z")
About 30-35 years ago, I visited England with my parents. We stayed with various uncles and aunts. We told them, “We want to eat the local food.” We were told, “No, you don’t.” And the refused to take us to any places serving traditional English food. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/91 "2014-04-14T19:08:42Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > “Boiled Bread”, whatever the fuck that is. Dumplings? What the Czechs call _knedliky_? > **[Hrníčkové knedlíky z hladké mouky | Recipe | Food, Eggs, Breakfast](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/404127766532211582/)** > > Hladkou mouku, mléko, špetku soli a vejce smícháme, přidáme pokrájený toastový chléb (nebo pečivo), přisypeme lněné semínko nebo drobné pokrájené… I’ve had it and it’s good. Bland, but good; you use it to soak up the gravy from roast meat. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/92 "2014-04-14T19:29:56Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Dumplings? What the Czechs call _knedliky_? > > [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/404127766532211582/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/404127766532211582/) > > I’ve had it and it’s good. Bland, but good; you use it to soak up the gravy from roast meat. Most British dumplings are made using a large amount of fat (usually suet), which means they really are quite far from boiled bread. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/93 "2014-04-14T19:52:28Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Seriously, if I could be arsed I could go and find many, many more. Just about any time different countries’ cuisine is compared on this forum black pudding is brought up as an example as to why the UK’s is worse than anyone else’s. Just noticed this. Interesting. I’ve never noticed it in real-life conversation, but it’s not like British food comes up all that often (and, when it does, the context is usually fish and chips or curry.) However, I have come across the bad rap British food gets. I’ve personally never quite understood it. I mean roast beef & Yorkshire pudding? Scones? A wonderful selection of bacons? Some of the best cheeses in the world? Add to that the beer, as well. And, for me, Branston pickle. I don’t really know where the “boil everything” stereotype comes from, because I’ve never noticed that being a thing in the UK itself. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/94 "2014-04-14T20:37:03Z")
I’ve sometimes said that I go so often to the UK for the food, and I’m not entirely joking. Aside from whatever else I plan to be doing there on a given trip, I also look forward to at least one fancy high tea with little sandwiches and scones with clotted cream, fish and chips preferably eaten while walking up a beach or waterfront, and the full English breakfasts–yes, with beans and even blood pudding if available. I don’t understand the horror of haggis. All the awful, icky organ meats are finely ground up and basically it’s just a somewhat peppery sausage. I wouldn’t put it among my favorite foods, but I’ve eaten it when in Scotland and probably will again the next time I’m there. ---
**Author:** ![scruffycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scruffycat/32/200_2.png) [@scruffycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scruffycat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/95 "2014-04-14T20:52:53Z")
So, never having had American bacon, how does it differ? I mean bacon is bacon, right? What makes British bacon a cut above, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/96 "2014-04-14T20:59:50Z")
Err… bagels are boiled bread (then baked). Sort of. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Of course it does. Unless you consider potatoes to be imported, in which case Italy is also out, with all the tomatoes. Which are of course from the New World. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Steak and kidney pudding. Americans often call this kidney pudding. Why? We do? I’d hate to be the “I’ve never heard of it so it doesn’t happen” guy, but I doubt most Americans have heard of this, let alone came up with an alternate name. I heard of the **pie** , but even then it doesn’t exist to buy around here. To almost everyone in the US, a pudding is a dessert, never something savory. But if that is so, it’s also because a steak is a single piece of meat in the US, and ceases to be so when ground or diced. Making one piece with meat glue is probably okay to call a steak. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/97 "2014-04-14T21:06:11Z")
> [@scruffycat](#): > > So, never having had American bacon, how does it differ? I mean bacon is bacon, right? What makes British bacon a cut above, so to speak. Streaky bacon, more or less. They’re used for very different purposes, and I think it’s better than back bacon. If you haven’t tried it, you should get offline now, as I think you’ll blow up the internet by putting it in an infinite loop while trying to compute how it is possible to be on the internet and not talk about bacon and sriracha constantly. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/98 "2014-04-14T21:19:21Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > We do? I’d hate to be the “I’ve never heard of it so it doesn’t happen” guy, but I doubt most Americans have heard of this, let alone came up with an alternate name. Pretty much every British food thread on here the eight years I’ve been a member has some variant of the “kidney pie/pudding”, “blood pie/pudding”, “toad in the hole” LOLz on it. I guess us Brits notice it a bit more, as there are relatively few UK-centric threads. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/99 "2014-04-14T21:23:11Z")
> [@scruffycat](#): > > So, never having had American bacon, how does it differ? The stereotypical American bacon is streaky bacon done to a crisp. It’s very tasty, but obviously a different cut to the usual British back bacon. They both have their place. Personally I think smoked back bacon, with all the fat left on, and done to a near crisp is peak bacon. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983/100 "2014-04-14T21:36:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Pretty much every British food thread on here the eight years I’ve been a member has some variant of the “kidney pie/pudding”, “blood pie/pudding”, “toad in the hole” LOLz on it. I guess us Brits notice it a bit more, as there are relatively few UK-centric threads. It must be, as I’ve literally _never_ heard of anyone referring to “kidney pudding.” I’d bet the vast majority of Americans are not even aware of steak & kidney pie. Hell, I’ve lived in the UK for several months, and I never even came across steak & kidney pudding (just the pie.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-is-the-stereotype-that-british-food-is-not-a-very-distinguished-cuisine/685983.md?page=6)