# How old might this gun be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894 "2016-04-02T07:38:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/1 "2016-04-02T07:38:40Z")
My wife just out of the blue tonight showed me a gun I never even knew she owned. She doesn’t know much about its history—it was given to her mother by her first husband sometime in the early 1950s. He was LAPD, so I’m guessing it was his back-up piece. It’s a beaut—snub-nosed S & W .38 special, external hammer, six-round, double action, impeccably maintained. But here’s the weird thing—it doesn’t have any serial number. How old is it likely to be? When did they first start stamping serial numbers? Does it have any monetary value greater than that of a comparable newly-manufactured gun? I went through S & W’s entire J-frame line and they don’t manufacture anything identical to this gun, but picture a model 442 with an external hammer and a six-round chamber and you’re somewhere in the ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/2 "2016-04-02T11:41:41Z")
It might be a Smith & Wesson Model 36 Chief’s Special, though the “no serial number” thing is kind of odd. Not being very familiar with that particular model, you might want to look for the serial number on the frame, inside of the cylinder. IOW, open the cylinder and check the inner parts of the framing, that you can’t see when the cylinder is normally closed. [Does it look anything at all like this?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36) ETA: If you do happen to find the S/N, the [Smith & Wesson](http://www.smith-wesson.com) website should be able to help you date it properly. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/3 "2016-04-02T13:07:40Z")
Model 36 has always been 5 shot. My guess, based on age and description, is that it is a short-barreled Model 10. S&W produced many thousands of Model 10 revolvers in lots of different variations. It was a very widely issued police revolver back when revolvers were the order of the day. > **[Smith & Wesson Model 10](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10)** > > The Smith & Wesson Model 10, previously known as the Smith & Wesson .38 Hand Ejector Model of 1899, the Smith & Wesson Military & Police or the Smith & Wesson Victory Model, is a K-frame revolver of worldwide popularity. In production since 1899, the Model 10 is a six-shot, .38 Special, double-action revolver with fixed sights. Over its long production run it has been available with barrel lengths of 2 in (51 mm), 3 in (76 mm), 4 in (100 mm), 5 in (130 mm), and 6 in (150 mm). Barrels of 2.5 inche... S&W did not stamp all their handguns with serial numbers before 1957, so the gun may be older than that or you may not be looking in the right place. It could be on the butt if an older gun. If post-1957 it will be on the frame behind the crane i.e. open the cylinder and swing it out to see if the serial number is under it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/4 "2016-04-02T13:41:07Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Model 36 has always been 5 shot. :smack: Well, I did say I wasn’t particularly familiar with that model, but I are reedin reel guud sumtyms. :o ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/5 "2016-04-02T21:09:28Z")
Picture please OP? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/6 "2016-04-02T21:28:14Z")
If there is no serial number, then that gun is **Trouble.** Ask a Lawyer. No, I’m not wrong. A Lawyer is prudent. You don’t know _who_ that gun _belonged to_, you don’t know _what_ it was _used to do._ Get a Lawyer, and get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/7 "2016-04-02T21:43:20Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > My wife just out of the blue tonight showed me a gun I never even knew she owned. Helluva way to begin a _noir_ novel. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/8 "2016-04-02T21:46:41Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > [Does it look anything at all like this?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_36) That’s it exactly. And it’s five rounds, not six. I was extremely fatigued and sleep-deprived when she showed it to me and just wasn’t paying sufficient attention. Still can’t find the SN, but the grips have been changed. Or what I should say is that I’m _assuming_ they’ve been changed, because they’re hard rubber grips, and I don’t think those existed back then. But I could be wrong—I’ve forgotten a lot of what I used to know about firearms. I’m going to remove them and see if it is stamped on the butt. > [@smithsb](#): > > Picture please OP? I haven’t had one of those post-a-pic accounts in years (obviously, since I can’t even remember what they’re really called). I’d have to set one up. What’s currently the best site for that? ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/9 "2016-04-02T21:54:17Z")
Yep—stamped on the butt, plain as day—J675402. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/10 "2016-04-02T22:03:11Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > If there is no serial number, then that gun is **Trouble.** > > Ask a Lawyer. > > No, I’m not wrong. > A Lawyer is prudent. > > You don’t know _who_ that gun _belonged to_, you don’t know _what_ it was _used to do._ > > Get a Lawyer, and get rid of it. Two words: Bull. And Shit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/11 "2016-04-02T22:16:13Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > If there is no serial number, then that gun is **Trouble.** > > Ask a Lawyer. > > No, I’m not wrong. > A Lawyer is prudent. > > You don’t know _who_ that gun _belonged to_, you don’t know _what_ it was _used to do._ > > Get a Lawyer, and get rid of it. You know nothing of which you speak. For centuries guns were manufactured without serial numbers. For much of the 20th Century guns were manufactured in the US by mainstream manufacturers without serial numbers. What a gun may have been used for in the past is utterly immaterial to owning it now. And the presence or absence of a serial number does nothing to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/12 "2016-04-02T22:20:50Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > If there is no serial number, then that gun is **Trouble.** > > Ask a Lawyer. > > No, I’m not wrong. > A Lawyer is prudent. > > You don’t know _who_ that gun _belonged to_, you don’t know _what_ it was _used to do._ > > Get a Lawyer, and get rid of it. Yes, you are wrong. Very much so. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/13 "2016-04-02T22:23:35Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > ETA: If you do happen to find the S/N, the [Smith & Wesson](http://www.smith-wesson.com) website should be able to help you date it properly. Thanks for that tip. Smith & Wesson charges $50.00 for authentication services and they say the current wait time is three or four months. But I think I’ll eventually do it. In my opinion it’s worth it, despite the fact that it’s very unlikely that we would ever sell it. I really want it, and have been dropping unsubtle hints to her about the jade and ivory lamp that’s been in family for 70 years, which I gave to her on our tenth anniversary. She also doesn’t want to part with it because she considers it a family heirloom, although she herself has virtually no personal interest in firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/14 "2016-04-02T22:39:52Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Picture please OP? [Test.](https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNW3ohh4LKpFwRLJIeEZl0UgmhTSFWeLeI-BILtz3qSqJJc_mlh5xf9qwjJoP6xAQ/photo/AF1QipMkKSUMh9p1kvmGd-9YRBFrKZlmM6rdBeH76fxE?key=QUxOdjAtQlcwTkdvMWtZd1dSWTlDS1BkM3JLcHdn) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/15 "2016-04-02T22:52:49Z")
A little googling seems to indicate that that serial number would date the pistol to 1979-80. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/16 "2016-04-02T22:53:20Z")
Nice gun. I have an identicle one that I carry a lot. Those rubber grips are somewhat newer than your gun. Grips like that didn’t come along til the late 70s or so. Those look like Pachmayrs to me. That grip is still in production. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/17 "2016-04-02T22:56:19Z")
The gun has a pinned barrel which would mean 1982 is the latest possible production date. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/18 "2016-04-02T23:05:34Z")
I’m gonna say family lore on the gun is wrong. It’s a late 70’s gun wearing grips that became available in the late 70’ s. At that time, such a gun would have been the hot setup for a patrolman’s backup gun or a plainclothes officer’s primary. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/19 "2016-04-02T23:37:28Z")
I found this on a gun message board (yeah I know, great cite…) > [@](#): > > J serial Prefix serial numbers. > For models 36, 37, 38, 49, 50. > > 1969-1970 = J1 - J99999 > 1971-1972 = 1J1 - 999J99 > 1973-1974 = J100000 - J250000 > 1975-1976 = J250001 - J370000 > 1976-1977 = J370001 - J610000 > 1977-1978 = J610001 - J670000 > 1979-1980 = J670001 - J760000 > 1981 = J760001 - J915400 > 1982 = J915401 - 1J18600 > 1983 = 1J18601 - 1JXXXX Anyway, it agrees with what **silenus** posted - 1979-1980. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894/20 "2016-04-02T23:47:47Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Nice gun. I have an identicle one that I carry a lot. Those rubber grips are somewhat newer than your gun. Grips like that didn’t come along til the late 70s or so. Those look like Pachmayrs to me. That grip is still in production. Yes, they’re Pachmayrs. The manufacturer’s embossment was impossible for me to read until I viewed it in direct sunlight, and even then it was very difficult to make out. Above the line that says ‘manufactured by Pachmyer USA’, is a line which appears to read ‘Presentation/Compro.’ My wife is certain that she has the original grips, but she doesn’t know where they are. She’s looking for them right now. If she finds them it might shed some light on the exact age of the piece. It’s very possible that my MIL gave my wife misinformation, or was confusing this gun with another one of similar appearance. Nobody in my wife’s family is a firearms enthusiast, so it would be very easy for them to not be able to differentiate between the two, if indeed another gun exists which we haven’t found yet or is no longer in the family’s possession. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-might-this-gun-be/750894.md?page=2)