# How old was Mary when Jesus was conceived? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610 "2019-01-11T18:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/41 "2019-01-14T02:19:06Z")
I’m still not following you, **Sage Rat**. Mary’s house would have been Joseph’s house. Where else would she have gone upon returning from visiting Elizabeth? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/42 "2019-01-14T02:20:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m still not following you, **Sage Rat**. Mary’s house would have been Joseph’s house. Where else would she have gone upon returning from visiting Elizabeth? Her parent’s house. She wasn’t married to Joseph. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/43 "2019-01-14T02:33:07Z")
She was betrothed, and carrying the child that was presumed to be his. It’d be rather remarkable if she weren’t living with him. Indeed, Matthew is quite explicit that as soon as Joseph found out that she was pregnant, an angel appeared to him and told him to take her into his home, and he did. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/44 "2019-01-14T02:40:19Z")
I see that my post about ages of death was completely redundant, the issue having already been pointed at by Tamerlane one day before. Sorry for that, I have this bad tendency to answer first and read the thread later. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/45 "2019-01-14T03:11:31Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > “ not a single English/British monarch made to 70 until George V who died in 1936” > > Victoria lived to 81. George III lived to 81 as well. Several of his other children were similarly long-lived (though not George IV). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/46 "2019-01-14T06:08:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > She was betrothed, and carrying the child that was presumed to be his. It’d be rather remarkable if she weren’t living with him. Indeed, Matthew is quite explicit that as soon as Joseph found out that she was pregnant, an angel appeared to him and told him to take her into his home, and he did. “and knew her not till she had brought forth her first born son.” Not exactly ever-virgin endorsement in my book (or His Book) Luke says: > [@](#): > > And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) > > 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. What exactly was an “espoused wife”? Does this mean they were not yet married when Jesus was born? (I assume it’s a bad translation of a Hebrew idiom - or in Luke’s case, English mistranslation of a Greek mistranslation of a Hebrew expression…) The version I recall from Catholic Sunday school many years ago was that Joseph was an older guy and there was some need to marry Mary off to someone who could take care of her. They seem to make much mention of Joseph’s lineage in the gospels to prove Jesus was of the House of David (and that road trip to ensure they could place him as born in the City of David); almost like the earliest tradition did not make him out to be son of God but son of Joseph, lineage of David; then when the “but he’s son of God” mantra took hold, never got around to cleaning up the details - much like the “ever-virgin” dogma came along too late to edit out the “James brother of Jesus” bits. Also note that Mary seems to have become pregnant about the time she headed out on a road trip to Elizabeth’s place… There’s an interesting bit in Aslan’s book “Zealot” where he mentions when Jesus first starts preaching that amazed neighbours say “Is this not Jesus, son of Mary?” the suggestion is that in lineage-conscious Judea they should have said “Son of Joseph” but the kinder interpretation is that Joseph is already dead; the other interpretation is that it was a deliberate dig, that the locals knew Jesus was not Joseph’s son; saying “son of Mary” was a way of saying “of unknown father”. (And of course, much later editors did not grasp the nature of the comment as an insult so it stayed in). ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/47 "2019-01-14T07:20:41Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > They seem to make much mention of Joseph’s lineage in the gospels to prove Jesus was of the House of David (and that road trip to ensure they could place him as born in the City of David); almost like the earliest tradition did not make him out to be son of God but son of Joseph, lineage of David; then when the “but he’s son of God” mantra took hold, never got around to cleaning up the details - much like the “ever-virgin” dogma came along too late to edit out the “James brother of Jesus” bits. The problem with this is that the texts which emphasis Joseph’s lineage from David - Matthew and Luke - are the same texts as those which insist on the virgin birth. My guess is that the explanation here is not “a failure to clean up” but a foreign (to use) concept of lineage/inhertance which accommodates adoption/fostering/substitution. Bear in mind that Mosaic law prescribed that if a man died living a childless widow, the man’s brother was to beget a child with the widow and that child was regarded as the child of the deceased man. Similarly a father with no sons could adopt a son, who was then regarded as the descendant of his adopted father, and not of his natural father. So my guess is that Matthew and Luke didn’t expect their readership to have any problem with the notion that, even if not not the biological son of Jesus, Jesus’s legal, cultural and social reality was that he was the son of Joseph. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/48 "2019-01-14T12:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **md2000** : > > “and knew her not till she had brought forth her first born son.” Not exactly ever-virgin endorsement in my book (or His Book) As a reminder, that’s not the topic of this thread, and any thread for which that was the topic would belong in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/49 "2019-01-14T13:21:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As a reminder, that’s not the topic of this thread, and any thread for which that was the topic would belong in GD. On the contrary. See my earlier post. I raised the question of Mary’s perpetual virginity in context of discussing whether the brothers and sisters of Jesus were Mary’s children, or if they were Joseph’s by a previous marriage. That discussion gives us information from which we can deduced information about their ages. And that is the subject of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/50 "2019-01-14T14:04:40Z")
senoy: > [@](#): > > It’s all guesswork. We know that she very likely was at least 12 because Jewish law forbid girls under 12 from being betrothed. Her father might have married her off as a minor. That’s a totally legal/binding marriage in Jewish law. It’s only on her own that a girl can’t get married under 12 - and that’s less a matter of prohibition than simply that minors can’t legally be party to a legal transaction. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/51 "2019-01-15T20:56:50Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > On the contrary. See my earlier post. I raised the question of Mary’s perpetual virginity in context of discussing whether the brothers and sisters of Jesus were Mary’s children, or if they were Joseph’s by a previous marriage. That discussion gives us information from which we can deduced information about their ages. And that is the subject of the thread. I guess it’s not inconceivable (sorry) that Jesus’ “brothers” were actually older step-brothers. But I am going to speculate it’s more likely that the oldest brother, the “first born” was the leader of the group. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/52 "2019-01-15T22:52:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can you imagine the pressure on those other kids? “Your brother is the Son of God and you’re just a _doctor_.” Sam Kinison had a joke quitw similar to that. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/53 "2019-01-16T14:28:54Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > “ not a single English/British monarch made to 70 until George V who died in 1936” > > Victoria lived to 81. How old was George III? He reigned for 60 years, and was already an adult when he came to the throne. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/54 "2019-01-22T16:42:45Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [George III `the King who lost America’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_III_of_the_United_Kingdom) was almost 82 when he died. His predecessor and grandfather George II died shortly before his 77th birthday… > [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > … George III 81 … > [@AK84](#): > > George III lived to 81 … > [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > George III lived to 81 as well. > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > How old was George III? He reigned for 60 years, and was already an adult when he came to the throne. Has anyone mentioned King George III? Didn’t he live to a ripe old age? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/55 "2019-01-22T17:02:25Z")
But did he die from the pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, or by drowning? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610/56 "2019-01-22T17:11:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But did he die from the pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, or by drowning? Something something, blue pee or blue peter or something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-old-was-mary-when-jesus-was-conceived/827610.md?page=2)