# How plausible in reality were the plots of Dr. Strangelove and Fail-Safe in regards to the bombers getting through? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2021, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781 "2021-01-18T06:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/21 "2021-01-19T12:47:25Z")
Especially if they’re carrying coconuts! ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/22 "2021-01-19T17:03:06Z")
It’s my theory that the Maylaysia Flight 370 had an pilot oxygen tank failure and so a fire in the electrical room (Let’s put the pilots’ oxygen in a place full of electrical equipment!) and so the pilots turned 180 to return to nearest airport before discovering they had no oxygen and passing out. the aircraft then continued on its way. I suspect that despite flying over the peninsula near an international border, radar did not properly take note of them because coverage was not as complete as “they” would have us believe. It’s possible that radar coverage there (and so radar coverage anywhere) is not as accurate or complete as we think. The fact that the area did not have proper radar coverage (indicated by the fact nobody wants to discuss the details of the radar readings) suggests to me that we attribute a Star-Trek tricorder-like accuracy to long distance radar that it does not really deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/23 "2021-01-19T18:58:51Z")
> [@BertNobbins](#): > > IIRC, the starting point for Fail Safe was the failure of a single capacitor in a piece of electronic equipment, which in in its death throes sent out a coded order for one group of bombers to attack. The chances of that happening are so remote that it spoiled things somewhat for me. I have the opposite view. Not knowing which capacitor shorted - or even that any had shorted at all! - is what made that film so realistic to me. When there’s a bug in the system, there’s no way to predict the output without understanding the bug. To paraphrase Captain Kirk, I don’t believe in fail-safe scenarios. The aforementioned Capt. Murphy would surely agree. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/24 "2021-01-19T19:45:57Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I can’t imagine a fully aware Soviet air defense system at the height of the Cold War allowing any of the bombers through when it was hell even trying to get over Hanoi using the exact same tech. Right off the bat, you’ve gone down the wrong path. We bombed Hanoi a lot, with great success and no heavy losses. (we still lost the war, though) One thing not mentioned is that B-52s could carry Hound Dog missile - early nuclear tipped cruise missiles that were to be launched ahead onto the projected flight path to knock out defenses. Yes, once you set off a nuke on Russian soil they know you’re coming, but can they stop you in time? It’s a mighty big country. I always found it totally plausible that one or more bombers could get through. Technical nit pick: the bombers in the first Fail Safe movie were “Vindicators”, not B-58s. They looked just like photo negtives of B-58s, though. Must be from a parallel universe. In DS:OHILTSWALTB, Ripper expected the government to back him up once he launched his preemtpive strike. He figured they’d have no choice. So it wouldn’t be just “his boys” attacking. > [@md-2000](#): > > Plus, the third arm was sea-launched ICBM’s, although I don’t think that (other than _Bedford Incident_ ) the submarine angle of rogue attack has been exploited much. Therre was a coldwar novel called Barracuda, concerning a cabal of right wing fanatics, with backing from the CIA, who managed to install an entirely loyal but treasonus wardroom on a ballistic missile sub, the titlular boat. Their plan was, first, to simulate the loss of the sub with all hands. This would give free passage to the Barracuda to sail into the med and fire “point blank” at the USSR, starting an all out toe to toe nukular confrontation with the russkies. Loyalists in the cabal would then order a full on strike. I’m surprised the book seemed to have sunk, as it were, from the public eye. It would make a better movei than some of Clancy’s works. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/25 "2021-01-19T20:17:40Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > a coldwar novel called Barracuda Any idea who the author was? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/26 "2021-01-19T20:19:40Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Any idea who the author was? [runs off to the other room] Irving A. Greenfield, 1979. I didn’t buy a lot of books back in those days, but this one caught my eye. I don’t regret it. A serviceible cold war actioner. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/27 "2021-01-19T20:29:55Z")
Going to have to start looking for that at used-book stores. Dang – 300 books, including SF, cowboys, lesbian pulp fiction, war stories, thrillers… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/28 "2021-01-19T20:35:11Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Irving A. Greenfield, 1979. > > I didn’t buy a lot of books back in those days, but this one caught my eye. I don’t regret it. A serviceible cold war actioner. Hah! The name sounded familiar, so I looked on my shelves. I have a book by him, “The Others,” from 1969, some sort of science fiction, whose cover blurb reads: “Does the universe belong to man…or to the dolphins.” I need to read it to see if “So long and thanks for all the fish” appears. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/29 "2021-01-19T20:42:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Does the universe belong to man…or to the dolphins. Sounds like John Varley’s “seven worlds” universe, where there are three levels of intelligence: super minds (that live in Jupiter), whales and dolphins, and at the bottom, “tool users” like ants and humans. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/30 "2021-01-19T20:44:13Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Dang – 300 books, including SF, cowboys, lesbian pulp fiction, war stories, thrillers… 300? Holy crap! ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/31 "2021-01-19T22:23:56Z")
I believe the conspiracy theory behind the mysterious sinking of the Soviet ballistic missile sub K-129 (of Project Azoria fame) was that for whatever reason the crew went rogue and decided to launch a nuke at Honolulu to set-off a Soviet first strike against the United States and the submarine sunk due to an unknown fail safe that would sink the sub in case of a rogue launch. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/32 "2021-01-19T22:48:20Z")
Hate to further the hijack, but if you do a Google Image search on Greenfield’s pen name “Vin Fields”, it brings up a trove of pulpy awesomeness. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/33 "2021-01-20T02:12:04Z")
$999.49 for a used paperback copy of _The Baby-Sitter_? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/34 "2021-01-20T02:55:48Z")
The “conspiracy” theory that I have heard is that the Soviets thought it had been purposely sunk and then sunk the USS Scorpion in retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/35 "2022-01-04T05:34:11Z")
Rewatched Strangelove a few days ago. I always thought that character was based on Kissinger but smarter folks claim it was Werner von Braun. Eric Schlosser (Fast Food Nation) did a book on defence which claimed (according to one Net summary) that in the 50s, American missiles had few defences against launch (such as codes) and were often controlled by non-Americans in NATO countries. He claims sone of the mechanisms discussed in Strangelove actually existed (such as officers being able to initiate a launch if the President was incapacitated, an order reportedly signed by Eisenhower). He also claimed the Air Force did not like the idea of codes on missiles to prevent tampering (don’t you trust us?) and originally chose the code 0000 for all its missiles. Can this possibly be true? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/36 "2022-01-04T06:09:37Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Rewatched Strangelove a few days ago. I always thought that character was based on Kissinger but smarter folks claim it was Werner von Braun What’s the joke that Von Braun’s autobiography was titled “I Shoot For the Stars” and some wag suggested it could be subtitled _“But Sometimes I Hit London”_ I had heard it was Kissinger because as a professor at the time (besides the German accent) he was the one talking in strategic terms about nuclear war outcomes and words like megadeaths. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/37 "2022-01-04T06:41:13Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > What’s the joke that Von Braun’s autobiography was titled “I Shoot For the Stars” and some wag suggested it could be subtitled _“But Sometimes I Hit London”_ According to wiki, that line is IN the movie (entitled “I Aim at the Stars.”)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I\_Aim\_at\_the\_Stars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Aim_at_the_Stars) Often credited to Mort Sahl or Tom Lehrer. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/38 "2022-01-04T08:16:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In Strangelove they directed the Soviet forces to protect the primary and secondary targets, but the plane attacked another one. Secondary and tertiary targets were meant to be strategically useful, but having a broad range of possibilities would have forced the Russians to spread their anti-aircraft defences more thinly, as explained in this [Air Force documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yi_TyxtFZg). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/39 "2022-01-04T15:01:03Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > He claims sone of the mechanisms discussed in Strangelove actually existed (such as officers being able to initiate a launch if the President was incapacitated, an order reportedly signed by Eisenhower) But I wonder how it would work logistically. If I was the guy in a silo whose job it was to turn a key, and I get an authenticated launch order, do I verify that it really came from the President and not General Ripper? How do I do that? I mean, the Prez has the launch codes, but someone came up with those codes to give to him, no? And that person or someone else told the guys downstream what those codes were in order to verify them. And couldn’t THAT person be in cahoots with General Ripper and give him the codes as well? In other words, who guards the guards? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781/40 "2022-01-04T15:37:09Z")
In an article on ArsTechnica about the SAGE computer used in the US’s early air defense, they mention a test of the system: > [@](#): > > The UK’s Royal Air Force, flying their new Vulcan bombers, got orders for the exercise, but the plucky Brits ignored some of the details. Flying their own attack profiles (essentially cheating) and using highly effective radar jammers, the Brits exposed wide gaps in SAGE capabilities. Despite a generally high success rate claimed for the fighters in “destroying” their targets, the best estimates were that only a quarter of the bombers were intercepted. So, it would seem that the single bomber would be pretty plausible, depending on the adversary. > **[The most important computer you’ve never heard of](https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/the-most-important-computer-youve-never-heard-of/3/)** > > How SAGE jumpstarted today’s technology and built IBM into a powerhouse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-plausible-in-reality-were-the-plots-of-dr-strangelove-and-fail-safe-in-regards-to-the-bombers-getting-through/930781.md?page=3)