# How popular is Punch and Judy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178 "2012-12-16T11:44:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/1 "2012-12-16T11:44:51Z")
So I have never really been exposed much to Punch and Judy. I have heard the name, but my awareness (American) has been primarily seeing it in movies and TV shows. Basically it is some kind of puppet show where the puppets are gaudily dressed with distorted faces that are hard to make out that are doing violent things to each other. That’s about the extent of what I knew. A book I’m reading (_Midnight Riot_, by Ben Aaronovitch) involves Punch and Judy an important component of the story. I had to look up several things online (primarily wikipedia) to get a better understanding of the topic. What I’m wondering is how popular it is, and where. It is not something that I recall ever seeing in person anywhere, as a child or adult. As an American, it isn’t a part of our culture the way it apparently is in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/2 "2012-12-16T13:10:02Z")
It’s something that’s sort of going out of favour recently in the UK, but there’s still a reasonable chance if you go to a summer fair, especially in a village or small town, that there will be someone putting on a Punch and Judy show. As a kid, I probably watched about 4 or 5 of them, and walked past quite a few more when I was older. I think they’re cutting out a lot of the wife beating/animal cruelty bits nowadays, for obvious reasons given that the show is aimed at little kids, but that’s a fairly large part of the traditional Punch character. I’ve not seen one for the last few years, but that’s probably more to do with the fact that I live in a city now- I think they still have them at the summer fete up where I used to live. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/3 "2012-12-17T00:50:17Z")
Some of the online stuff I read discussed shifts for modern sensibilities, and one guy was discussing doing shows in different locations in Europe, and the different social attitudes meaning he could do different things. Also there was discussion about changes for kids vs adults. How many of you dopers have grown up with it? Love it? Kinda familiar with it, but don’t care much? Never heard of it? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/4 "2012-12-17T01:09:34Z")
I grew up seeing it from time to time, but that was back in the 60’s. I didn’t see too many references to it after college age (they do make a brief appearance in _The Santa Clause_). I think the Muppets kind of drove the idea of violent puppetry out of peoples’ minds, and they’re pretty much a thing of the past here, akin to the Rat Pack era of drunken reprobates as good guys (Dean Martin and Foster Brooks, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/5 "2012-12-17T01:59:39Z")
Growing up in Canada, I only remember seeing it a few times on TV, never as a live puppet show, and always in a British context. I couldn’t say what flavour of humour it was or anything else about it, really. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/6 "2012-12-17T02:02:07Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I think the Muppets kind of drove the idea of violent puppetry out of peoples’ minds, and they’re pretty much a thing of the past here, akin to the Rat Pack era of drunken reprobates as good guys (Dean Martin and Foster Brooks, for example). I’ve noticed that even The Simpsons has reformed Barney, I assume for the sake of The Kids. ---
**Author:** ![KermitTheFrig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/47e85d/32.png) [@KermitTheFrig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KermitTheFrig)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/7 "2012-12-17T02:39:28Z")
Punch and Judy is a centuries old, chiefly UK, live puppet version of Family Guy. Punch is like a naughty boy. He has run-ins with a variety of pompous and/or incompetent authority figures. Punch one-ups each of them and at the end even beats the devil himself. It’s violent the way Tom and Jerry or Roadrunner cartoons are violent. It doesn’t play very well in our overly PC world, but that it the very world that Punch has always poked fun at. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/8 "2012-12-17T08:47:27Z")
I’m vaguely aware of it here (in Scotland) but have never seen a real show, just read about it, or seen it being mocked on the TV. I wonder if it’s more of an English thing? My toddler’s nursery rhymes CD has a Punch and Judy song - I usually skip it, I can’t remember the exact lyrics, but I think they’re quite horrible ☹ ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/9 "2012-12-17T12:53:17Z")
In terms of popularity as an art form, I think it ranks somewhere between fife music and harmonica music. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/10 "2012-12-17T12:59:18Z")
I had kind of sort of heard the name, but couldn’t have told you what kind of thing it even was until I read the book Gone Girl, which is a bestseller. It plays a role in that book. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/11 "2012-12-17T13:15:49Z")
Growing up in America, I’ve seen a couple P+J shows, plus a couple regular old puppet shows. But not a whole heck of a lot of either. I mean literally one or two each. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/12 "2012-12-17T13:44:54Z")
Strangely, I was just thinking about this. In my travels I came across a piece of Punch and Judy memorabilia - a printed handkerchief. Somehow I absorbed an awareness of the characters and that it was a traditional puppet show. It was just something that people knew. There would be references in movies and TV shows. I don’t think my son, who is 15 years old, has any sense of what Punch & Judy is. Which led me to wonder what are some similar cultural references that his generation does share, and what will he be wondering if anyone younger than him still remembers. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/13 "2012-12-17T15:47:23Z")
An old thread > **[Punch & Judy, USA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431362)** > > I am a little bit puzzled by this cartoon: http://ozyandmillie.org/d/20070802.html Why should that expression be a puzzle? I think the origin is perfectly obvious. In the UK we have a tradition called Punch And Judy. It’s a puppet show starring a... ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/14 "2012-12-17T15:52:10Z")
My dad was a Punch & Judy puppeteer. It was the top of his show, after his magic and my ventriloquism. He died when I was 16 ( I’m 52 now) so I have no idea how P&J is seen these days, but back then? Children LOVE violence. Anyone who says otherwise has never spent any time with children. They would yell for the Policeman, or the Hangman to punish Punch. His did his act all around Missouri and Kansas during the late 1960s professionally. I’m sure I must have done more than 100 shows with him. ---
**Author:** ![RealOmegaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/958977/32.png) [@RealOmegaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealOmegaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/15 "2012-12-17T18:42:25Z")
Only ever seen it on Midsomer Murders ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/16 "2012-12-17T19:01:14Z")
I always thought of it as a very english thing, so I’m surprised to hear of it elsewhere. Even as an english person I’d say it’s pretty rare. It’s in a lot of tv shows when they want to show english countryside + something slightly off, but I’ve only seen it maybe six times my entire life. But maybe people who grew up in less urban places than me would have seen it more. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/17 "2012-12-17T19:10:15Z")
Hawaiian Punch is just as tasty as it’s always been, although you can no longer buy the mix-it-up-yourself concentrate by that brand name. It’s considerably less popular than it used to be, though, probably because of the ascendancy of flavored water, such as Sobe. I don’t care for Sobe myself; I think it’s overpriced and not sweet enough. Sweet Judy Blue Eyes (aka Suite: Judy Blue Eyes; aka Judy Collins) is, sadly, a lot less popular than she used to be, probably because of Adele. ETA: [Homer Simpson voice] And that’s the story of Punch and Judy. [/HSv] ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/18 "2012-12-17T20:59:34Z")
Curious observation about the comment “pleased as punch” deriving from Punch and Judy. I have heard the expression before, never would have connected it to Punch and Judy, mostly from not being familiar with Punch and Judy. Having read up on wikipedia and a couple other online sources, it definitely makes sense that “pleased as Punch” is what is meant, i.e. Punch is a gleeful cackling character while beating and killing folks. I also heard it asserted that that is the origin of the term “punchline”, as whenever Punch kills someone he says “That’s the way to do it”. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/19 "2012-12-17T21:06:05Z")
I’m sending this thread to the moon! I mean, Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178/20 "2012-12-18T00:03:07Z")
As a kid I read _The Happy Hollisters and the Punch and Judy Mystery_. That’s about the sum total of my experience with the phenomenon. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-popular-is-punch-and-judy/644178.md?page=2)