# How powerful is the Chinese Military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203 "2020-02-19T23:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/203 "2025-11-09T19:04:59Z")
When the word “drone” encompasses hand held hobby quadcopters with cameras and missile-armed air machines the size of a DC-9, it becomes a useless word. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/204 "2025-11-10T03:50:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But larger, more established militaries are more conservative, and usually slower in fully embracing new technologies and tactics, at least until they’ve seen the old, traditional tactics fail horribly. This is why I said that most people don’t really know how it’s going to play out, and possibly not even the militaries themselves. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > It’s mostly the numbers that alter all the equations of offense and defense. It’s sorta the difference between a single soldier needing to defend themselves against an attack by a bear versus an attack by a swarm of mildly poisonous bees. I presume that all the parties are looking at the war in Ukraine with interest. If Taiwan and Allies can build better anti-ship drones / missiles than the Chinese can defend their ships against, it’s going to be difficult to conquer. However, if the Chinese can develop better drones / missiles they can do a lot more damage to Taiwan’s infrastructure and defense capabilities. I don’t know the relative importance of aircraft carriers vs swarms of drones / missiles. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/205 "2025-11-10T14:17:11Z")
The key value of drones, particularly in the Ukraine and nearby areas of Russia, is they are cheap, expendable, and hard to catch with regular air assets. I saw a video of someone talking about fibre optic cannisters that attach to a drone, and unwind a spool of fine fibre optic wire for control to avoid jamming. Apparenly the battlefields of Ukraine are crisscrossed with these “use once” fibres. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/206 "2025-11-10T15:42:15Z")
I’ll believe anything Russian defense related when I see it in action and successful. They’ve got a 70 year pattern of secrecy, propaganda, overblown specs and general bullshit that makes me automatically skeptical when it comes to any new “super” weapons announced by Moscow of any sort. As far as naval drone warfare is concerned, especially with China, I’d wonder if the ranges involved would make any drones tend toward being the size of antiship missiles and therefore vulnerable to anti aircraft/anti missile defenses. In other words, if we look at the Ukrainian war, what seems to have made drones viable is that the technology to make cheap, small, and easily guided drones became readily available. That doesn’t scale upward without effectively becoming antiship missiles. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/207 "2025-11-10T20:32:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’ll believe anything Russian defense related when I see it in action and successful. The whole plot of Le Carre’s _The Russia House_ is [Spoiler] a whistleblower who provides a sheaf of documents proving the USSR’s great missile defense does not have close to the claimed accuracy. But the end result is, without any way to verify, it’s business as usual. Assume worst case, they do work. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/208 "2025-11-10T22:04:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > As far as naval drone warfare is concerned, especially with China, I’d wonder if the ranges involved would make any drones tend toward being the size of antiship missiles and therefore vulnerable to anti aircraft/anti missile defenses. I don’t think you’ve been following naval drone warfare in Ukraine. We’re not talking about flying drones. We’re talking unmanned suicide boats. [Ukraine’s Magura Naval Drones: Black Sea Equalizers | Proceedings - September 2025 Vol. 151/9/1,471](https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2025/september/ukraines-magura-naval-drones-black-sea-equalizers) > In February 2024, Magura V5s became the first naval drones to sink an enemy warship in combat, destroying the Russian Tarantul-III–class guided-missile corvette _Ivanovets_ and the 4,000-ton Ropucha-class (Project 775) tank landing ship _Tsezar Kunikov_ . Within the first year of becoming public, Magura V5 USVs operating in one-way attack mode reportedly destroyed eight Russian warships and damaged six more, causing more than $500 million in damages to the Russian fleet. Models of the Magura have since been displayed at numerous Western defense exhibitions, offering a glimpse into their capabilities. > > The USVs are challenging to detect, incorporating a low-profile V-shaped carbon-fiber hull with a waterline height of only 1.6 feet and a low thermal signature. They are powered by waterjet propulsion and have a range of more than 400 nautical miles, a cruising speed of roughly 22 knots, and top speed of 42 knots, although burst speeds of up to 54 knots have been claimed. The USVs are thought to possess GPS, inertial, and first-person-view camera guidance via two electro-optic cameras, and Mesh radio with aerial repeater or satellite communications to provide jam-resistant multichannel communication. Payload capacity is up to 705 pounds, and impact fuses to trigger explosives can typically be seen extending from the bow. Alternative payloads can include machine guns, antitank guided missiles, or even surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). > > A multipurpose Magura V6 design exists, and a larger V7 variant was made public in spring 2025. Armed with AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, Magura V7 drones shot down two Russian Su-30 strike fighters in May. It displaces 1.3 tons light and up to 3.7 tons fully loaded. At 24 feet long, the Magura V7 features significantly enhanced seakeeping capabilities and an operational range of around 800 nm. It can operate with a maximum payload of around 1,400 pounds and is frequently pictured carrying two SAMs on launch rails. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/209 "2025-11-12T18:40:13Z")
Intersting article on this topic - may be paywalled: > **[Xi’s Military Purges Show Unease About China’s Nuclear Forces](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/12/world/asia/xi-trump-military-purges.html)** > > The shake-up in China’s armed forces comes as both Beijing and Washington are pushing through major changes in their country’s militaries, in different ways. Basically, serious concerns about corruption and loyalty and dedication in the Chinese forces, particularly the rocket forces, even 10 years after Xi first started tackling the problem. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/210 "2025-11-12T19:25:55Z")
Corruption is a real problem throughout China. But oddly enough many of the “corruption” purges that occurred as Xi was settling in were aimed at proteges of Xi’s competitors. While a much smaller percentage of his own proteges were purged. Odd that. Those same two possibilities exist today. He’s purging what he sees as people loyal to power centers other than himself, OR he’s purging people who’re unreliable crooks regardless of their in-service politics. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2025, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/211 "2025-11-12T23:19:40Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > We’re talking unmanned suicide boats. It’s a good question how effective these would be or if China can come up with effective countermeasures. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2025, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/212 "2025-11-14T05:20:23Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > unmanned suicide Neat trick! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2025, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/213 "2025-11-14T12:13:48Z")
You gotta admit it saves a lot of lives versus the more traditional forms of suicide. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/214 "2025-11-17T04:48:48Z")
That’s just the kind of thinking-outside-the-box that the Pentagon needs these days! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/215 "2025-11-17T23:15:26Z")
Fundamentally, isn’t a drone boat just a torpedo? Except that, on the one hand, the torpedo is submerged and higher-performance, but on the other hand, the drone boat is a lot cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/216 "2025-11-18T00:04:08Z")
Kinda sorta. I’d say a drone boat vs a torpedo is like the difference between a missile and a cruise missile. More range, less speed, much cheaper for the range. And the “much cheaper” part affords the possibility of swarming to saturate the target’s defensive systems. If you can present more incomers than they can possibly prosecute, some will get through for sure. Even if, taken individually, each would have no chance against the defensive systems. That’s how a quantitative difference turns into a qualitative difference. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/217 "2025-11-18T00:42:20Z")
Joking aside, manned suicide boats and suicide torpedoes have been used in the past. [Shinyo (suicide motorboat) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinyo_(suicide_motorboat)) [Kaiten - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiten) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/218 "2025-11-18T01:43:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Except that, on the one hand, the torpedo is submerged and higher-performance, but on the other hand, the drone boat is a lot cheaper. I would also say that the drone can go much, much farther and remain in communication with, and under control of, the launching entity. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/219 "2025-11-21T04:30:21Z")
Drone boats are also not just explosive. Some have been armed with SAMs or quadcopter drones. Also have cameras for surveillance. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/220 "2025-11-21T19:14:18Z")
A similar classic example is the recent attack in Russia, where a transport truck had a false roof the opened up to release a swarm of quadcopter drones thus extending their reach greatly. Or the Hezbolla and Hamas rockets, where essntially a home-made missile of a tube filled with rocket fuel and topped with explosives cost Israel a $40,000 Iron Dome missile to guard against each one. It’s not just asymmetric warfare in terms of manpower expose, but also in terms of economic costs of attack and defence. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/221 "2025-11-22T03:22:58Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > It’s not just asymmetric warfare in terms of manpower expose, but also in terms of economic costs of attack and defence. Yes. I wonder about how this is playing out in China, Taiwan, the US, Japan and other countries which may be involved in a conflict. The US seems to be stuck in expensive solutions. Taiwan seems to be working on cheaper solutions, but I haven’t really followed everything very closely. From [here](https://www.trenchart.us/p/the-key-to-winning-a-pacific-war): > Thousands of kilometers away in the Western Pacific, the country with the most and best cheap cruise missiles could have an edge in war across the Taiwan Strait. That’s good news for Taiwan, mixed news for China—and challenging news for the United States. > > Surely mindful of Ukraine’s success developing and deploying an array of cheap cruise missiles and attack drones often costing just $100,000 or less, Taiwan is scrambling to develop and deploy similar munitions, with the national defense-technology institute leading the way. > > They include the Chien Feng IV one-way attack drone, which is a Taiwanese take on the Iran-designed Shahed, thousands of which Russia flings at Ukrainian cities every month. The institute is also working on an 800-km ground-launched cruise missile based on the Barracuda-500 from U.S. firm Anduril. For that, it has capped the unit cost at just $200,000. > > Geography favours the Taiwanese missile arsenal. A Chinese invasion fleet sailing across the 130-km-wide Taiwan Strait is a strike planner’s dream—if that planner has enough munitions on hand. There’d be no need for a meticulous strategy meant to deliver second- and third-order effects on complex enemy systems and dispersed infrastructure. Just shoot. It’s a [cat and mouse game](https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/01/china-suddenly-building-fleet-of-special-barges-suitable-for-taiwan-landings/). > China is building at least five new special purpose barges which appear tailor made for amphibious assault. The barges may provide the PRC (People’s Republic of China) with a unique way to offload large numbers of tanks directly onto Taiwanese roads. [![](https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/China-Taiwan-Amphibious-Invasion.jpg.webp) ](https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/China-Taiwan-Amphibious-Invasion.jpg.webp) Taiwan has only a limited number of beaches where amphibious assualts are possible, so these barges are supposed to be game changers. However, these are the types of ships which are most vulnerable to missiles and drones. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203/222 "2025-11-22T03:30:37Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if China is quietly shifting its entire strategy about taking Taiwan. All the way up until recently, the assumption of everyone was that it would be a D-Day type of amphibious landing assault involving hundreds of thousands of PLA infantry, but that approach always played to Taiwan’s geographical advantages. With China taking a good long look at what Iranian Shaheds are doing to Ukraine, and realizing it’s got 100x the manufacturing ability of Iran, China is surely thinking that there’s no real need to even physically get men on Taiwan and instead that an endless barrage of tens or hundreds of thousands of Chinese Shahed-equivalents per month, for months on end, essentially unstoppable, could psychologically induce surrender if the Taiwanese populace senses there’s no end to it and the damage is spiraling way out of control - without a single Chinese soldier setting foot in Taiwan until after surrender. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203.md?page=12)