# How problematic are the sexual politics in DR. HORRIBLE? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851 "2019-12-14T15:34:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/21 "2019-12-17T23:47:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He said “ **a** more developed character,” not **the** more developed character. Lots of room to grow Penny’s character without taking away the focus from the lead. True, but I don’t see any room for that which wouldn’t require having her upstage at least Hammer. There’s not much time left in the blog format to actually spend time on her character. You can’t just add a minute of characterization–you have to change the plot structure so that it makes sense for us to find out more about who she is, while maintaining the conceit that she’s more an ideal than an actual person to Dr. Horrible, and more a prize than a person to Hammer. I genuinely think the only way to do it would be to reduce Hammer’s role, and make the story be about Penny and Billy, with Hammer being the side character. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/22 "2019-12-18T00:17:08Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > All three episodes put together adds up to 42 minutes, the average length of one “hour-long” show. And all the characters were pretty cartoonish, intentionally so. Penny is mostly just a girlfriend character but there’s no pretence otherwise. She does change from hopeful to disillusioned, though, so it’s not like there’s no development at all. The series was written for the internet, in part as a response to an on-going writer’s strike that was paralyzing network TV, so if they’d wanted more time to expand Penny’s character, they could have taken it. It’s not like they were constrained by writing around commercial breaks or anything. I don’t know that I’d characterize Penny almost realizing that Captain Hammer is a jerk, but dying before she could do anything about it, as development. She doesn’t change as a person, she just learns more about a person, and then starts reacting to that knowledge in a way you’d expect her to react given her characterization up to that point. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/23 "2019-12-18T04:57:33Z")
I also don’t get why Penny would get criticism. The story is about making fun of and criticizing two weirdo self-important men. Dr Horrible is horrible but trying to reach beyond himself, but he’s a juvenile idiot who can’t figure that out, and when that fails he lashes out at, well, everyone because of his own flaw. Hammer is, well, just Hammer: a doofus who thinks he’s great because he thinks he’s great. Penny is an innocent who encounters these two weirdos and reacts. She’s us. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/24 "2019-12-18T05:09:52Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And yes, before anybody suggests it, I realize iPad and Kendall will read mini electronic books to me. I really hate those. The robot voices are not euphonious. They have gotten much better recently, but not enough to be as good as a human. Some DVDs and BluRays have Descriptive Audio. The American Council of the Blind has a web site with a list: [http://acb.org/adp/dvds.html](http://acb.org/adp/dvds.html) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/25 "2019-12-18T18:17:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The series was written for the internet, in part as a response to an on-going writer’s strike that was paralyzing network TV, so if they’d wanted more time to expand Penny’s character, they could have taken it. It’s not like they were constrained by writing around commercial breaks or anything. > > I don’t know that I’d characterize Penny almost realizing that Captain Hammer is a jerk, but dying before she could do anything about it, as development. She doesn’t change as a person, she just learns more about a person, and then starts reacting to that knowledge in a way you’d expect her to react given her characterization up to that point. But having it be a typical episode length means it’s easier for it to be shown on TV at a later date. I mean, it’s unlikely to be a coincidence that the length perfectly fits TV schedules. Dr Hammer doesn’t develop much either, he just gets found out. Dr Horrible is the only one who really develops as a character, and it is his blog, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/26 "2019-12-18T18:50:55Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But having it be a typical episode length means it’s easier for it to be shown on TV at a later date. I mean, it’s unlikely to be a coincidence that the length perfectly fits TV schedules. Has it ever been shown on TV? I don’t believe it has been in the US. At least, not in a major way. The wikipedia for the show mentions that it was intended to be released online, then through iTunes, and then a DVD release, but doesn’t mention anything about broadcast or commercial television. > [@](#): > > Dr Hammer doesn’t develop much either, he just gets found out. Dr Horrible is the only one who really develops as a character, and it is his blog, after all. I think he was surprised as anyone to find out what a giant wuss he was when it came to feeling pain, but in general, you’re correct - but the whole point of the character is that he’s very shallow. It’s important to the plot that he be shallow - it’s a big part of what makes him a crappy person. Penny is not intended to be shallow, she’s just underwritten. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/27 "2019-12-18T18:56:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Has it ever been shown on TV? I don’t believe it has been in the US. At least, not in a major way. The wikipedia for the show mentions that it was intended to be released online, then through iTunes, and then a DVD release, but doesn’t mention anything about broadcast or commercial television. > > I think he was surprised as anyone to find out what a giant wuss he was when it came to feeling pain, but in general, you’re correct - but the whole point of the character is that he’s very shallow. It’s important to the plot that he be shallow - it’s a big part of what makes him a crappy person. Penny is not intended to be shallow, she’s just underwritten. No, I don’t think it has been shown on TV yet, but it would be a massive coincidence if they just happened to match potential TV running time. The whole thing is intended to be shallow and funny, really. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/28 "2019-12-18T19:12:10Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > No, I don’t think it has been shown on TV yet, but it would be a massive coincidence if they just happened to match potential TV running time. > > The whole thing is intended to be shallow and funny, really. Apparently, [the original goal was to have it come in at exactly thirty minutes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Horrible%27s_Sing-Along_Blog), so it appears it was a coincidence: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > As a web show, there were fewer constraints imposed on the project, and Whedon had the “freedom to just let the dictates of the story say how long it’s gonna be. We didn’t have to cram everything in—there is a lot in there—but we put in the amount of story that we wanted to and let the time work around that. We aimed for thirty minutes, we came out at forty two, and that’s not a problem.” ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/29 "2019-12-18T19:58:27Z")
Another alternative is the long-running podcast “Welcome to Night Vale”, it’s set in a fictional desert town where all conspiracy theories are true, and eldritch abominations (like the City Council, Station Management, Hooded Figures, a Vague, yet Menacing Government Agency) are considered commonplace it’s an extremely multilayered podcast that almost requires multiple re-listens, as what seemed to be throwaway jokes and references, actually factor into the story and plot… it’s a brilliant podcast, just make sure to stay away from the Dog Park… https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ujksjzqrhys?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PL7dECAvAzDXvG2bSGTfuWAQpgXuQsMaC6&start=0 A friendly desert community where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep. Welcome to Night Vale. Hello, listeners. To start things off, I’ve been asked to read this brief notice: The City Council announces the opening of a new Dog Park at the corner of Earl and Somerset, near the Ralph’s. They would like to remind everyone that dogs are not allowed in the Dog Park. People are not allowed in the Dog Park. It is possible you will see Hooded Figures in the Dog Park. Do not approach them. Do not approach the Dog Park. The fence is electrified and highly dangerous. Try not to look at the Dog Park, and especially do not look for any period of time at the Hooded Figures. The Dog Park will not harm you. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851/30 "2019-12-18T20:31:37Z")
If you do get into WTNV, there are 160 episodes to listen to, so far, it’s still going strong, it gets a little “weak” around Season 4 but recovers nicely Transcript from the episode released two weeks ago; > **[159 - Cat Show](https://cecilspeaks.tumblr.com/post/189458499686/159-cat-show)** > > Be the annoying goose you want to see in the world. Welcome to Night Vale.  > > This day was foretold and now it is here. Some doubted it would come, but the signs were clear. And I could not be more excited! It’s the annual Night Vale cat show.... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-problematic-are-the-sexual-politics-in-dr-horrible/844851.md?page=1)