# How quickly does the new Pope have to decide on a papal name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107 "2013-02-22T20:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/41 "2013-02-24T18:33:45Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > According to their article, the practice of a papal reign name was started when Mercurio decided his baptismal name (honoring the roman god Mercury) would not be appropriate for the Pope. As an aside, I was once at a [Protestant] Bible study where we were studying the book of Acts, and there was a relatively new Christian there who was utterly _shocked_ to discover that there were Christians in the Bible who had names like “Apollo” and other Roman/Greek deities. He was all, “Why didn’t they change their names?” It had to be explained to him that, in the same way “Jesus” (or “Yeshua”) was an ordinary, common name for a Jewish man of the day, the Roman and Greek gods had pretty ordinary names as well. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/42 "2013-02-24T22:32:08Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > The Pope is already called familiarly, ‘Peter’ because he occupies the Chair (throne) of Peter. When Leo the Great sent the Eastern Bishops his great Tome, helping to smooth the Christological debates of the East, it was acclaimed “[Peter has spoken!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tome_of_Leo#The_Tome)” > > So, taking the name Peter would be a hugely ballsy move. It would signal, “Watch out, world, I have big bold plans that will shake you up but you’re gonna accept it 'cause I have the Chair of Peter, dammit, and I’m gonna use it!” Thank you! I have never heard this, but it explains it! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/43 "2013-02-24T22:56:34Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > But if the pope was baptized “Barney” he could become Pope Barney. Traditionally Roman Catholics are baptized with the names of existing saints. I don’t know that this rises to the status of a regulation. From [here:](http://www.catholicculture.org/Culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=32081) > [@](#): > > According to the Church’s tradition, the baptismal name “should be taken from some person whose eminent sanctity has given him a place in the catalogue of the saints. The similarity of name will stimulate each one to imitate the virtues and holiness of the Saint and, moreover, to hope and pray that the one who is the model for one’s imitation will also be his advocate and watch over the safety of his body and soul” (Catechism of the Council of Trent, Baptism). At the very least, a priest would be reluctant to baptize a child with a name that wasn’t that of a saint. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/44 "2013-02-25T00:03:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Traditionally Roman Catholics are baptized with the names of existing saints. I don’t know that this rises to the status of a regulation. > > From [here:](http://www.catholicculture.org/Culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=32081) > > At the very least, a priest would be reluctant to baptize a child with a name that wasn’t that of a saint. That’s old Code of Canon Law. [New code](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2V.HTM#7W) says: \*Can. 855 Parents, sponsors, and the pastor are to take care that a name foreign to Christian sensibility is not given.\*Which is legalese for “anything you want except something scandalous.” Which means that the name of a saint is not only no longer required, it’s not even encouraged or recommended. So, yes, the Church baptizes Crystal and Jennifer and Shananalayla. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/45 "2013-02-25T02:16:55Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > It had to be explained to him that, in the same way “Jesus” (or “Yeshua”) was an ordinary, common name for a Jewish man of the day, the Roman and Greek gods had pretty ordinary names as well. It’s even a common name today, among Hispanic people (though pronounced differently). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/46 "2013-02-25T02:27:47Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > According to Wikipedia, this is correct, at least according to today’s standards. "Immediately after a new pope is elected, and accepts the election, he is asked, “By what name shall you be called?” The new Pope chooses the name by which he will be known from that point on. This could be dangerous with a bunch of old men. “By what name shall you be called?” “What?” “Cardinals of the Church, I give you Pope What!” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/47 "2013-02-25T02:38:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > This could be dangerous with a bunch of old men. > > “By what name shall you be called?” > “What?” > “Cardinals of the Church, I give you Pope What!” Well. both Nome, Alaska and kangaroos turned out OK. (Despite being named in that way.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/48 "2013-02-25T02:44:25Z")
I was under the impression that the Pope was the unquestioned head of the church and the absolute ruler of Vatican City. So, any question of “Can a pope do X?” is an unqualified yes. If the Pope wants to be called Pope Shitheel XIV and wave his dick around on the balcony, then order stonings in public, then what he says goes. Is that incorrect? Is there a method to challenge the Pope’s authority? What if he decrees that every Catholic should murder a non-Catholic every morning? Can someone undo that? ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/49 "2013-02-25T03:25:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Traditionally Roman Catholics are baptized with the names of existing saints. I don’t know that this rises to the status of a regulation. > > From [here:](http://www.catholicculture.org/Culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=32081) > > At the very least, a priest would be reluctant to baptize a child with a name that wasn’t that of a saint. You are correct, I’m sure. But the catholic church is nothing if not flexible. I know Catholics who have been able to be recognized by the church again after a divorce, for a small fee. You can get married outside of your own parish for (wait for it) a small fee. What would be cooler than picking your own name as your pope-handle? And they would probably wave the fee. You are the Pope, after all! I think I’ve changed my mind. As much as l like **Pope Lando** , I’m going to go with **Pope John Paul-John Paul** , especially if he is an African who ran marathons in his younger days. **Pope John Paul-John Paul**. (why separate knob, why?) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/50 "2013-02-25T03:34:06Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I was under the impression that the Pope was the unquestioned head of the church and the absolute ruler of Vatican City. So, any question of “Can a pope do X?” is an unqualified yes. > > If the Pope wants to be called Pope Shitheel XIV and wave his dick around on the balcony, then order stonings in public, then what he says goes. Is that incorrect? Is there a method to challenge the Pope’s authority? What if he decrees that every Catholic should murder a non-Catholic every morning? Can someone undo that? Well, of course the Holy Spirit which guides the Church would not allow such a thing to happen. But I suspect that if such a thing did happen, the Vatican Secretary of State would be making a solemn announcement that “The Pope has been taken gravely ill and will be making no public appearances until further notice. Please join me in praying for his swift recovery.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/51 "2013-02-25T03:50:05Z")
Anybody else keep seeing this as “How quickly does the new DOPE have to decide…” and think “wait, what? new Dope? Who’s letting us decide something like that?” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/52 "2013-02-25T05:08:25Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > You are correct, I’m sure. Nope. See #44. > [@](#): > > I know Catholics who have been able to be recognized by the church again after a divorce, for a small fee. It’s called [an annulment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment_%28Catholic_Church%29). The fee is for processing, and it’s not bought and it can be turned down for lack of merit. > [@](#): > > You can get married outside of your own parish for (wait for it) a small fee. There is a fee whether married in or out of your parish, which is waived for those who can’t afford it. A couple has a right to be married in the parishes in which they preside. They can get married at some other parish with the permission of all respective pastors for a good reason. So… what’s with all these implications that the Catholic Church is full of craven money-grabbers? > [@](#): > > What would be cooler than picking your own name as your pope-handle? And they would probably wave the fee. Really? And who exactly would be charging the Pope to change his name? I’d like to see the cite for all this information you seem to have. If you don’t have the cites, get out of General Questions and take your not-so-subtle smear job to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/53 "2013-02-25T06:10:56Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Well. both Nome, Alaska and kangaroos turned out OK. (Despite being named in that way.) [Kangaroo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo#Terminology) is not “What?” in any Aboriginal language. In fact it is the right name for the animal in the language of the tribe the Captain Cook asked. So, myth. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/54 "2013-02-25T06:19:52Z")
Also, nobody living is ever Pope (name) I. You only get to be “the first” after you’re dead and only if someone else chooses to be Pope (name) II. This is true of regnal names everywhere. Queen Victoria is not called “Victoria I” because there has never been a Victoria II. If there is ever a Queen Victoria the second, Queen Victoria will retroactively become Queen Victoria I. Until and unless, she is simply referred to as Queen Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/55 "2013-02-25T07:35:12Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Also, nobody living is ever Pope (name) I. > > You only get to be “the first” after you’re dead and only if someone else chooses to be Pope (name) II. That’s not the case. Pope John Paul I [officially used ‘the first’ in his regal name](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I#Election). Before JPI, the last Pope to take an original name that did not need a number was Pope Lando in 913, and before him, Romanus in 897, and Formosus in 891. Romanus and Lando each only served less than a year. Formosus had four years, but he was executed… [posthumously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution). So, having an original name is not very lucky. If the new Pope chooses an already-used-name, [here is a list that he can pick from.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_name#Frequency) ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/56 "2013-02-25T08:19:27Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > That’s not the case. Pope John Paul I [officially used ‘the first’ in his regal name](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I#Election). According to that Wiki cite, he was the “first and only” Pope to do it. And I’ve never heard of a King or Queen doing it. Which doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but does mean that it’s very rare. So my point stands, mostly - not “never” but “very rarely” if you want to be pedantic about it, and this place being what it is I’m sure you do. As an aside, his using “the first” as part of his name and then dying after a few weeks and being replaced by JP2 must be popular with conspiracy theorists. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/57 "2013-02-25T14:03:38Z")
**Moriah** isn’t being pedantic. You made a very broad claim, and she rebutted your claim with an example directly relevant to the topic under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/58 "2013-02-25T14:15:48Z")
And here’s another example, from the [Accession Proclamation of King James I](http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/brit-proclamations.htm#James1): > [@](#): > > Hereby willing and commanding, in the name of our Soveraigne Lord **James the first** , King of al the foresaid kingdoms, all the late Lieutenants, deputy Lieutenants, Sheriffes, justices, & all Maiors, Bailiffes, Constables, Headboroughes, and all other Officers and Ministers whatsoever, that they bee ayding and assisting from time to time in all things that are or shalbe necessary for the preventing, resisting, and suppressing of any disorderly assemblies, or other unlawfull Acte or Attempt, either in word or deede, against the publique peace of the Realme, or any way prejudiciall to the Right, Honour, State or Person, of our only undoubted and deere Lord and Soveraigne that now is, **James the first** King of all the said Kingdomes, as they will avoid the perill of his Majesties heavie indignation, and their owne utter ruine and confusion. Beseeching God to blesse his Majestic and his Royall posteritie with long and happy yeeres to raigne over us. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/59 "2013-02-25T15:29:52Z")
OK, I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bob\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_X)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107/60 "2013-02-25T18:01:46Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > That’s not the case. Pope John Paul I [officially used ‘the first’ in his regal name](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I#Election). > > Before JPI, the last Pope to take an original name that did not need a number was Pope Lando in 913, and before him, Romanus in 897, and Formosus in 891. > > Romanus and Lando each only served less than a year. Formosus had four years, but he was executed… [posthumously](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution). > > So, having an original name is not very lucky. > > If the new Pope chooses an already-used-name, [here is a list that he can pick from.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_name#Frequency) Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini wanted to call himself “Formosus II” (because Formosus means “handsome”) but other cardinals were horrified, not wishing anybody’s memories to be jogged about the Formosus case. So Aeneas picked “Pius II” again. There are a number of already-used names on your list which are basically “retired” because of what happened to one or more of the last Popes to use those names. “Urban”, “Adrian”, “Julius”, “Alexander”, and “Marcellus” are not likely to be revived. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-does-the-new-pope-have-to-decide-on-a-papal-name/651107.md?page=4)