# How quickly we forget (antiwar protesters) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660 "2003-01-19T18:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/121 "2003-01-22T09:27:36Z")
So, when senator Kennedy says going to war is the wrong thing to do, is he a traitor? Or is he doing his job as a senator? > [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...eder/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...eder/index.html) > German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has declared his country is not ready to back any new U.N. resolution backing military action in Iraq. > > “Don’t expect Germany to approve a resolution legitimising war, don’t expect it,” he told a rally of his Social Democrats party. > > France, Russia and China – all permanent members of the council – have made it clear they will not be rushed by any pressure from Washington for action against Saddam Hussein, and have backed a call by U.N. inspectors for more time to carry out their searches in Iraq. Is it wise to go against the rest of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/122 "2003-01-22T10:14:31Z")
Ah. So Senator Kennedy chose now to become moral and principled? He couldn’t possibly be grandstanding to gain some points with the anti-war crowd… As to the rest of the world, they are making noise to appease their own anti’s. Come crunch time, they will decide that they want a piece of the post-invasion pie, and will vote affirmative. (Or abstain, as China may do.) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/123 "2003-01-22T16:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > As to the rest of the world, they are making noise to appease their own anti’s. So it’s the American and British Churchills against an army of foreign Neville Chamberlains ? Now I see why we haven’t made much effort to woo them into our alliance of two. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/124 "2003-01-22T17:19:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* As to the rest of the world, they are making noise to appease their own anti’s._\* Yeah, God forbid the US government should do anything like listen to the opinions of the country’s population. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/125 "2003-01-22T17:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*Not protesting does not equal anti 1st Amendment. :smack: > \*\* Quite right, if you mean _choosing_ not to protest, or even being _asked_ not to protest and agreeing. Being prevented from protesting does. Being called a traitor for protesting is just plain rude. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/126 "2003-01-22T18:25:22Z")
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that _certain_ posters in this thread never get to positions of power within the US government. I enjoy my rights as an American and would loathe giving them up. That said: **tomndebb for President** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/127 "2003-01-22T18:43:18Z")
**jshore** > [@](#): > > B&I: I can pretty much guarantee you that when most of the intelligent folks reading this thread are thinking “How can this poster be so dense?” they are not thinking of the likes of Lissa. [Moderator Hat ON] jshore, do NOT strongly imply that your fellow posters are dense. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/128 "2003-01-22T19:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > That said: **tomndebb for President** If nominated, I shall not run. If elected, I shall not serve. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/129 "2003-01-22T20:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > \*\*Well, sure, the opinion of the public can be a factor…although I think if you look at how things evolved, it had much more to do with the nuclear industry fucking its own self over with Three Mile Island (and then the USSR with Chernobyl) and turning the general public fearful … perhaps for some pretty good reasons. > \*\* The fear of nuclear power has been pervasive even before the 3 mile island incident and what happened in Chernobyl coud never happen in the US. It merely served as a “AHA, I told you so” to the public. In the US, thats one screwup in a 50 year history. Just think of the tons of pollution and waste spewed out of fossile fuel generators, acid rain and rapidly depleting non renewable resources. Dams destroy thousands of acres of land. My whole point in all of these discussions is that we are taking the opinions of demonstrators who may not have all the facts or are chosing to ignore the facts. Lying is not limited to one side of the debate. Just because you have thousands upon thousands of people demonstrating their point of view doesnt make them correct or even truthfull. For all we know they couldve been lied to and they chose to believe those lies rather than the truth. They have a right to demonstrate, without a doubt. But just because a person has the right to speak doesnt mean other people have to listen to them. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/130 "2003-01-22T20:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*They have a right to demonstrate, without a doubt. \*\* That’s good to hear because the OP was : “ **Those chumps are a bunch of subversive bastards** ”. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/131 "2003-01-22T21:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*Yeah, God forbid the US government should do anything like listen to the opinions of the country’s population. \*\* Would a person who can’t, or won’t, even listen to how educated people pronounce “nuclear” listen to the public as to a minor matter like war? ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/132 "2003-01-22T21:27:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*That’s good to hear because the OP was : “ **Those chumps are a bunch of subversive bastards** ”. \*\* and have you seen what the president of the United States have been called by these anti-war protestors? The OP is entiltled to his opinion as well. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/133 "2003-01-22T21:28:22Z")
Would a person who has bought and ruined oil companies and _still_ came out filthy rich listen to a public whose income can’t even come close to matching his? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/134 "2003-01-22T21:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*If nominated, I shall not run. > If elected, I shall not serve. \*\* There are those who would vote for you _because_ of that. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/135 "2003-01-22T21:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*and have you seen what the president of the United States have been called by these anti-war protestors? \*\* And??? You should hear what names they have called the Reichschancellor of the Great German Reich. Maybe, in future, we should write ‘president’ with a capital P. Have the Pope declare it a holy institution. Better still, let’s declare the Presidency infallible. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/136 "2003-01-22T23:44:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\* > > I did not say debate or free speech is bad or wrong. \*\* Oh! That explains it! You thought that “subversive” meant positive! \*\* > [@](#): > > Not protesting does not equal anti 1st Amendment. :smack: \*\* What \*\* photopat \*\* said. Calling protesters subversive \* does \* equal anti-First Ammendment. Simply put, you cannot call someone subversive for speaking out against a policy they disagree with and then say that you support their right to do is. It’s hypocritical. I understand your mother and cancer metaphor, but whereas smoking may be a choice, getting cancer is not. No one would opt to go through cancer treatments: cancer is something that happens TO you, the passive party. You must actively \* chose \* to go to war. \*\* > [@](#): > > Hope I did not misspell a couple of words - that will be all the evidence Lissa needs to prove me wrong :rolleyes: \*\* Actually, I’d like to apologize for that remark. It was a cheap shot, and I’m sorry. Given that my own spelling and grammar are far from perfect, I really shouldn’t have stooped to personal insults. That being said, your spelling and grammar are not the only evidence I need to say that you’re wrong. You’ve provided abundantly toward that opinion in other ways. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/137 "2003-01-22T23:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > cancer is something that happens TO you, the passive party. You must actively \* chose \* to go to war. I disagree. The US did not choose to go to war with Japan on Dec. 7, 1941. Belgium did not choose to go to war with Hitler. Kuwait did not choose to go to war with Saddam Hussein. We can choose whether or not to go to war with Saddam _right now._ However, war may come in the long run, and it may not be our choice. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/138 "2003-01-23T00:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I disagree. The US did not choose to go to war with Japan on Dec. 7, 1941. Belgium did not choose to go to war with Hitler. Kuwait did not choose to go to war with Saddam Hussein. \*\* Of course we did. Look at it this way: a man walks up to me and punches me in the nose. I can either punch him back, or sit passively. I have to make a choice. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, we also had to make a choice, no matter how obvious the answer seems. We could have done nothing, if we had chosen to, but instead, we chose to go to war. We may have been “punched” first, but we still had to chose to fight back. As did Belgium and Kuwait: they had two choices, to fight back, or just sit there. A choice had to be made, either way. > [@](#): > > \*\* We can choose whether or not to go to war with Saddam _right now._ However, war may come in the long run, and it may not be our choice. \*\* As I said, we always have a choice. We could decide to do absolutely nothing, even if Saddam nukes Denver, Colorado, and takes George Bush prisoner. It wouldn’t be the smart thing to do, but the option is still there. You always make a decision: whether to act, or not. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/139 "2003-01-23T00:27:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > > * * * > > When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, we also had to make a choice, no matter how obvious the answer seems.\*\* You forget the testosterone factor. Even I would want to nuke Saddam if he took out Denver. BTW, the only Senator not voting for war with Japan was a woman. 🙂 I would use a better metaphor. Mama don’t have cancer yet, we are trying to stop her from stuffing crack into her Marlboros. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660/140 "2003-01-23T00:41:46Z")
> [@](#): > > The US did not choose to go to war with Japan on Dec. 7, 1941. That’s quite correct. The US chose to go to war with Japan on Dec. **11** , 1941. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-quickly-we-forget-antiwar-protesters/149660.md?page=8)