# How racist was the Speedy Gonzales character? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, cartoons-animation\ **Created:** [October 20, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371 "2020-10-20T00:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/61 "2020-10-22T19:47:03Z")
Just about as cool as the kid who ‘invented’ holding a pencil under their nose with a curled upper lip and saying he was the Frito Bandito. Who all experienced that? Seriously, we had a kid in my elementary school that did that… Many years later I meet my wife, and it comes up that she had a kid in her class that did that and said he invented it. To make it better, wife #2 had the same thing. All different parts of the United States. What is the ground zero of that happening? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/62 "2020-10-22T19:52:25Z")
I remember other kids having Frito Bandito erasers and wanting one. I don’t think they came as a premium in the Frito bag or a cereal box or I would have had one. It probably involved sending in proof of purchase which for some reason was too complicated for me to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/63 "2020-10-23T00:41:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > As someone who grew up on the East Coast, I never knew about the Mexicans-are-lazy stereotype, so his being fast never registered as a contrast to anything. South Park’s bit on this (Museum of Tolerance): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gW-MXJUuEgE/maxresdefault.jpg "South Park Museum of Tolerance Racist Stereotypes") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW-MXJUuEgE&t=42) ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/64 "2020-10-23T01:30:29Z")
My take about this is that nowadays people look for anything that they can stick the word racism to it. We are back to the Salem times hunting witches. “You dont like cheese? You are racist!”… The society nowadays sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/65 "2020-10-23T01:36:44Z")
Although I agree the term racism is overused, the fact remains that it exists, is pernicious, is systemic and still affects many. There are different degrees - threats or denying someone a job or housing is worse than a one-dimensional, mixed positive and negative portrayal on a television cartoon. The solutions are complex and unclear. But acknowledgement is a first, necessary step. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/66 "2020-10-23T02:12:17Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > My take about this is that nowadays people look for anything that they can stick the word racism to it. > We are back to the Salem times hunting witches. “You dont like cheese? You are racist!”… > The society nowadays sucks. Yeah, that imaginary scenario sucks so much more than actual racists and fascists armed in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/67 "2020-10-23T09:49:51Z")
Don’t you think that you’re hearing more about racism now because it’s only recently that America seems to care what non-whites have to say and they want to talk about the racism they’ve experienced? The longer a society suppresses minority voices, the more difficult the discussion will finally be. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/68 "2020-10-23T10:06:34Z")
It should be obvious to everyone at this point that, yes, minorities will have a deep love for obviously problematic characters _when this is the only form of representation they are exposed to_ so it’s not nearly the gotcha people think it is to trot out the “Well, this random Mexican loves Speedy Gonzales”. The issues with Speedy are well established in this thread, it would take wilful blindness not to look at a typical Speedy Gonzales cartoon and not see how they were deliberately building on top of ignorant, malicious stereotypes about Mexicans that were put in place to enforce a racial hierarchy. It’s not just a matter of a trait here and there, it’s referencing specific cultural touchpoints in a very deliberate way. Did the creators of Speedy Gonzales mean to create an explicitly racist cartoon that would demean Mexicans? For many people deeply invested in denying that racism is widespread, this a matter of prime concern because, in their framework, an action without racist intent cannot be racist and that is where they draw the bright line. But ultimately, _it should not matter_ what their intent was because the purpose of calling out racism isn’t to make white people _feel worse_, it’s to make POC’s lives _be better_ and you need to judge racism by its impact, not its intent. The reason why people care so much about calling out systematic racism is because the racism that has the most impact is the racism where everyone involved can believe they’re not racist but POC still bear the brunt of disproportionate impact. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/69 "2020-10-23T13:36:52Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It should be obvious to everyone at this point that, yes, minorities will have a deep love for obviously problematic characters _when this is the only form of representation they are exposed to_ so it’s not nearly the gotcha people think it is to trot out the “Well, this random Mexican loves Speedy Gonzales”. Exactly. For example, I and a lot of fellow Indian-Americans grew up loving the Apu character on _The Simpsons_. That doesn’t mean we disagree with all the objections to the appearance and portrayal of that character. That doesn’t mean that there is nothing racist about Apu and that it’s all really okay, because some Indian-Americans like him. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/70 "2020-10-23T13:49:24Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > But ultimately, _it should not matter_ what their intent was because the purpose of calling out racism isn’t to make white people _feel worse_ , it’s to make POC’s lives _be better_ and you need to judge racism by its impact, not its intent. Just quoting this so maybe somebody will read and comprehend your words. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/71 "2020-10-23T14:23:49Z")
Lots of “we know better than they to know if it is racist.” Lots of people love the slightly racist, stereotypical representation of their own people. If most Mexicans, and various latinAmericans, didn’t feel insulted, it wasn’t insulting. You don’t get to decide what other people feel racist about their own culture. There is the myth the Peruvians eat pigeons “peruano come paloma” and we just take it in stride when we travel and poke fun on ourselves. “Is there a nice plaza nearby, I’m really hungry” ---
**Author:** ![cdawg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@cdawg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdawg)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/72 "2020-10-23T15:26:49Z")
Never thought about it that way, but it makes perfect sense. Mexicans, especially in older media, were usually portrayed as extremely lazy/lethargic. I’m not old enough to understand how that stereotype began or how it persisted for so long, but I do recognize it was there. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/73 "2020-10-23T15:32:52Z")
It was a very confusing stereotype for someone like me growing up in Southern California. The people working the hardest in public view - landscapers, field workers, cleaners - were all of Mexican heritage. I think we rationalized it by thinking all the lazy ones never left Mexico - eg tropes like “Mexican time” meaning everything takes longer to get done down there. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/74 "2020-10-23T15:35:29Z")
I heard it was because, like other tropical people, Mexicans work in the early mornings and evenings and siesta during the heat of the day. Here in Canada, I never heard of the stereotype until a grade 5 or 6 teacher taught it to the class. ---
**Author:** ![cdawg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@cdawg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdawg)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/75 "2020-10-23T15:37:34Z")
I grew up in the central valley of California, so I have the same experience of seeing Mexican people as the hardest working people around literally anywhere I went. I work on an almond ranch at the moment, and I like to think of myself as a fairly hard worker, but seriously the Mexican workers put most to shame, including me. Also as a note I am white, figured I should clarify lol. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/76 "2020-10-23T16:17:04Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Lots of “we know better than they to know if it is racist.” Lots of people love the slightly racist, stereotypical representation of their own people. If most Mexicans, and various latinAmericans, didn’t feel insulted, it wasn’t insulting. You don’t get to decide what other people feel racist about their own culture. > > There is the myth the Peruvians eat pigeons “peruano come paloma” and we just take it in stride when we travel and poke fun on ourselves. “Is there a nice plaza nearby, I’m really hungry” Racism isn’t up for a vote. Who can be designated as the qualified group? What percentage of that group’s assent is required before something becomes not racist? We have to work from general principles. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/77 "2020-10-23T16:24:53Z")
Sure, it is a tricky subject, but if the majority of the “affected” group don’t mind or don’t consider them racist then I’m not sure other groups can tell them it’s racist and they have to accept. The whole being offended on someone else’s behalf is at a point, bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/78 "2020-10-23T18:29:45Z")
No one is “being offended on someone else’s behalf.” That’s a right-wing motto. And no one is telling Mexicans they can’t create their own Speedy Gonzales or similar character. The question is whether a non-Mexican group or entity should continue producing content that bears the marks of racist stereotyping. They clearly should not. That decision shouldn’t be made by appealing to some supposed poll of Mexicans. In the same way that the Washington Redskins were wrong to justify keeping their racist name by appealing to supposed polls of Native Americans. If some group of Native Americans are cool with “Redskins” as a name, they’re free to set up their own Redskins stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/79 "2020-10-23T20:12:53Z")
I would argue that in the context of its time Speedy was anti racist. It was an intentional going against the then current racist trope. I see some parallel various shows that specifically placed women in the smart brave independent main character roles, and had stereotypical women figures on the show as well. Yes they were playing off the extant stereotype held by many and of typical portrayal, would not have existed without them, but they were providing an alternative image. Someone whose only exposure to Mexican as a concept was the Speedy show, who had no real life contact, would not come away thinking Mexicans are lazy. They would come away with a sympathy for Mexican as the underdog who wins by being fast smart and of good intent. Given other imagery of that time that was a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371/80 "2020-10-23T21:01:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Someone whose only exposure to Mexican as a concept was the Speedy show, who had no real life contact, would not come away thinking Mexicans are lazy. Huh? Speedy isn’t the only character in those cartoons. Some of the other characters _are_ “lazy Mexicans”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-racist-was-the-speedy-gonzales-character/923371.md?page=5)