# How "real" is Aspergers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058 "2011-10-18T18:14:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/21 "2011-10-19T02:16:32Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Is social ineptitude a personal failing? Along the same line: Is murder and torture a personal failing?.. Is anything a personal failing?.. Does this line have a termination point? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/22 "2011-10-19T02:26:45Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > Along the same line: Is murder and torture a personal failing?.. Is anything a personal failing?.. Does this line have a termination point? Choice? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/23 "2011-10-19T02:32:03Z")
If one is socially inept because he does not care enough about other people to use social skills that he is perfectly capable of developing, then that may be a personal failing. However, those with Asperger’s syndrome can’t do many of the thing we expect of a normally functioning person. They can learn to compensate, but it requires observing, learning, and thinking about things that most people just pick up, as well as constant vigilance – social cues that stand out to the rest of us make no impression on the person with Asperger’s unless he’s looking for them, and has made an effort to learn what to look for. While Asperger’s syndrome has much in common with autism, and (it seems to me) arises from the same roots, it’s very different. Asperger’s is distinguished by the absence of language delay, which is a major diagnostic criterion for autism, and is often one of the first things observed by the parents of autistic children. My son is autistic, and between 1.5 and 2 years he didn’t develop much in the way of speech, and even lost interest in babbling. He also started to avoid eye contact, started making a lot of repetitive gestures, and began to get very fussy about new foods – traits he shares with Asperger’s kids. My brother, in his 50s, was diagnosed with Asperger’s which explains a lot of his behavior. He’s always written well, but, like the autistic, he’s always been frustrated by the unwritten rules of social behavior that no one wanted to explain. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/24 "2011-10-19T02:33:50Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > Along the same line: Is murder and torture a personal failing?.. Is anything a personal failing?.. Does this line have a termination point? This idea is so foolish I don’t even know where to begin criticizing it. Being born with the inability to discern social cues is not comparable to being a murderer. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/25 "2011-10-19T03:44:37Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > If one is socially inept because he does not care enough about other people to use social skills that he is perfectly capable of developing, then that may be a personal failing. However, those with Asperger’s syndrome can’t do many of the thing we expect of a normally functioning person. Which is why, (bringing it back to that comment of mine that received the accusatory read-back-with-question-mark,) we have so much “self-diagnosed internet Asperger’s”, which leads **CheeseDonkey** to believe that it is a means for socially inept people to excuse their social ineptness, rather than an actual ailment. “Personal failing” type socially inept people trying to siphon off some of the acceptance from the legitimately disabled. It’s like when Cartman pretended to have Tourette’s, so he could swear as much as he wants. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/26 "2011-10-19T03:45:18Z")
In looking at mental syndromes of the past the caution is that any time a somewhat open ended definition of a “syndrome” is established there is a contingent of both professionals and the public that tend to shepherd themselves and/or others toward that definition to the point it almost seems to be a stampede. It’s human nature to want to apply labels and categories to the things they are interested or involved in, which is kind of where Aspergers is now. There are people chasing that diagnosis for themselves or others like relay runners after the baton, and many professionals are only too happy to assist that effort. It does not mean the symptoms or behavioral tendencies concerning people aren’t real, or that anyone is necessarily operating in bad faith, it’s just what’s popular, it’s here and now, and it’s what people are focusing on. Then 20 or 30 years later you invariably get some paradigm changing article saying “Hey you know “syndrome X” never really existed, it was really blah, blah, blah etc etc.”. There are people out there with real problems, but we need to have some real humility and caution re the diagnostic ability, even in modernity, to identify and understand mental dysfunction issues and what’s really happening in the human mind. Re being “real”, it’s as real for the people utilizing the diagnosis in good faith as Freudian Analysis was for people of the early to mid 1900’s. Diagnostic labels can make us feel that we have a handle on something, however given the history of psychiatric syndromes and labels I don’t think it’s a good bet that our current diagnostic methodologies are all that determinative for complex metal dysfunctions with no discernible organic cause. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/27 "2011-10-19T03:54:33Z")
As a teacher/person who has been involved with youth for years, I’d say I’ve met about six kids with your classic textbook definition of Asperger’s. All of them had lower IQs. There’s another kid I know -a son of my friend- that his mom will joke about, but he lacks the obsessive thing. He’s just an extremely awkward genius teenager who still thinks that girls have cooties. _Shrug_ Power of suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/28 "2011-10-19T05:01:18Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I honestly don’t know what the OP is asking. Is the OP suggesting that pain and general malaise are not “real”? I would suggest that the correct answer to the OP is: **Yes, Aspergers is indeed something that a doctor can diagnose, just like he can diagnose pain and general malaise.** > > FULL DISCLOSURE: I too am “self-diagnosed”, having scored markedly above average a few years ago in the Wired article cited by **md2000**. I don’t think he’s suggesting that pain and malaise are not real, just that they’re subjectively or broadly defined. Like stubbing a toe causes pain, and cutting that same toe off also causes pain, so calling them both “pain” is kind of a vague way of defining each sensation since there’s such a difference between them. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/29 "2011-10-19T05:28:51Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > Along the same line: Is murder and torture a personal failing?.. Is anything a personal failing?.. Does this line have a termination point? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/30 "2011-10-19T06:27:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Aspergers is real, but I hate it when it is classified as “a form of Autism”. Although _some_ symptoms overlap, it really is nothing like autism. My 8yo is on the Autistic Spectrum. He is fairly high functioning and is mainstreamed at school. But I would KILL for him to only have Aspergers. OMG YES!!! The way I would explain it, is that Asperger’s is euqlivant to the social delays that kids with mild learning disabilties may have. Whereas HFA would be equiliavnt the social delays that kids with mild mental handicaps may have. There was a kid in my college class who had SEVERE HFA. he wasn’t just socially awkward…A lot of kids at my college had social delays, due to having learning disabilties. He was homeless mentally ill caliber strange. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/31 "2011-10-19T16:29:46Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > … He was homeless mentally ill caliber strange. The post where I point out an interesting username/post combo. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/32 "2011-10-19T16:43:39Z")
If you could really get to know my daughter, let alone raise her, you’d know that yes, there’s something to this Asperger’s thing. I can understand the skepticism, because a lot of self-diagnosed, nerdy introverts might find it easier to blame their awkwardness on something they can definitively point to, but even at that it shows me there truly is a spectrum with very fine gradients. My daughter is very suseptible to panic attacks, can’t cope with many typical social settings, has a very strong aversion to loud noise or chaotic environments, and has a laser-like focus on a very narrow range of topics. In conversation, she’s very tangential and can’t seem to tell when her peers are getting bored or don’t even understand the subject. She takes sarcasm literally more times than not, and has a very difficult time cooperating, sharing or doing something her few friends would rather do. And I get to contrast this with my son, who’s a typical 9 year old. And yes, she’s been diagnosed by a psychologist and has been seeking therapy from both her psychologist and psychiatrist, if that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/33 "2011-10-19T17:02:11Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > I had a classmate in college who had (clinically diagnosed) Aspberger’s and she said something I thought was interesting – she had a very hard time following movies, because she couldn’t figure out why people were acting the way they were. “Why is that character crying?” “Uh, well, it’s because she realized her father loved her all along and now that he’s dead she can never reconcile with him…that’s what the last twenty minutes were about.” “Really?” > > I thought this was interesting because it showed that she couldn’t pick up on social cues even when she was removed from the social situation itself. This observation is interesting. Part of my son’s social skills training involved watching old television shows like the Andy Griffin show and Little House on the Prarie. The group would watch a scene and examine the social interactions in detail with the help of the therapist. Often she would pause the DVD, go over the social clues and have the kids guess what will happen next. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/34 "2011-10-19T17:11:42Z")
If I may hijack: 1. Is there anything physically on the brains or major nerves of Asperger’s folks (or indeed, autistic folks) that can be identified as forensic evidence of having one of the conditions? IOW, can an extremely careful biopsy or autopsy determine whether or not someone suffers/suffered from Asperger’s or autism? 2. Is it thought that there are absolutely physical signs of Asperger’s/autism that could conceivably be identified, but the science is not yet advanced enough to know what to look for? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/35 "2011-10-19T17:16:45Z")
\*\*Warning: The following can be characterized as anecdotal non-evidence, but is still interesting. \*\* I’m a teacher and frequently in schools, Aspergers has become the go to “my kid struggles and is weird” diagnosis. I’ve had quite a few Asperger kids the last few years and almost none of them seemed to be particularly disable. Just a bit odd. I would not have even thought they needed any kind of doctor or examination. Then again, I didn’t see them at home. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/36 "2011-10-19T17:19:47Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > This idea is so foolish I don’t even know where to begin criticizing it. Being born with the inability to discern social cues is not comparable to being a murderer. :rolleyes: I wrote a fairly long post, in which I tried to explain what I was talking about, but the board ate it, and I don’t care enough to try to redo it. But a few short observances. The thread was about Asperger’s but the post wasn’t; _”Is social ineptitude a personal failing?”_ Is anything a personal failing or are we simply a product of genes and nurture? And if we are really capable of making a choice, then what about obese people? Where do we draw the line? Deep down, why do posters use roll eyes? Is it an attempt to inflict pain. Does it make the writer feel superior? Is it the result of an inferiority complex? The answer to the last will, of course, be it’s a reaction to stupidity. I wonder if that’s a personal failing? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/37 "2011-10-19T18:03:48Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > I wrote a fairly long post, in which I tried to explain what I was talking about, but the board ate it, and I don’t care enough to try to redo it. But a few short observances. > > The thread was about Asperger’s but the post wasn’t; _”Is social ineptitude a personal failing?”_ > > Is anything a personal failing or are we simply a product of genes and nurture? And if we are really capable of making a choice, then what about obese people? Where do we draw the line? > > Deep down, why do posters use roll eyes? Is it an attempt to inflict pain. Does it make the writer feel superior? Is it the result of an inferiority complex? > > The answer to the last will, of course, be it’s a reaction to stupidity. I wonder if that’s a personal failing? With some more careful explanation and editing, I think this would be a fascinating Great Debates or IMHO thread and I hope you’ll consider posting it. ---
**Author:** ![SimonMoon5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@SimonMoon5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SimonMoon5)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/38 "2011-10-19T18:12:15Z")
“If it was a real disease, they wouldn’t call it Ass Burgers!” – Eric Cartman ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/39 "2011-10-19T18:50:19Z")
I had a student once. What a mess. He could talk well enough to be understood, but was extremely demanding. He had no volume control: always spoke very loud and the words were not connected the way ordinary speech is. He was a b right student, an A in my course (which was mathematical linguistics, incidentally). He was a computer science major. Many years later I met his parents. His mother was very pleasant and described his problem as autism. His father was one of the more socially awkward people I have ever met, but not like the son. Since I had heard Asperger’s as referring to high functioning autists, I mentally transposed the mother’s description to Asperger’s. He was certainly high functioning in some sense. He had got a job as a computer programmer and was apparently doing quite well. The mother said, “Thank God for computers; I can’t imagine what he might have done otherwise.” High functioning indeed. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058/40 "2011-10-19T19:00:46Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > This is the best way to “self-diagnose”. > [http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html) I’m a 26. Woo-hoo! USA! USA! Just anti-social? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-real-is-aspergers/600058.md?page=3)