# How’s Carney doing, Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2025, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850 "2025-05-04T03:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/141 "2025-08-12T19:05:28Z")
That’s doing pretty well for just singing a bunch of jazz standards, no? True story. I was in Sydney Australia for the “Big Day Out” Festival. I wanted to see something at the famous Opera House. I saw Michael Buble was playing. I love jazz, but standards sung by modern singers are not my favourite (move on, dudes!). As a Canadian, I thought I would do the patriotic thing and see him - ticket prices were reasonable and no better options arose. I’m pretty sure I was the only guy in the Opera House. Certainly there were no men in the first ten rows. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/142 "2025-08-12T19:33:42Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > If someone can explain to me why markets are going up at a time of unprecedented volatility, please help me understand > [@Frodo](#): > > Conventional wisdom is that it’s in part because of the AI boom/bubble I saw an article on this a week or two ago. Spending on AI is quite insane. > **[Spending on AI data centers is so massive that it’s taken a bigger chunk of...](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/spending-ai-data-centers-massive-150110727.html?guccounter=1)** > > As Rusty Foster, author of the widely read media blog Today in Tabs, puts it: “Our economy might just be three AI data centers in a trench coat.” > Giant tech companies have spent so much on data centers in 2025 that their spending is now contributing more to U.S. economic growth than consumer spending, long considered the nation’s economic engine. Read that again - AI spending is currently higher than _all American consumers combined._ That can cover up a lot of losses in sales at Walmart and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/143 "2025-08-12T19:36:12Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I see you posted something similar in the NVidia thread, sort of multi-thread simulpost Not quite the same, I bobbled the booble. Comedian Schlesinger says most people only know three things. I feel she is right, and wonder if she has been reading my letters. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/144 "2025-08-12T19:37:47Z")
[![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOPCm4-8idEugVAlzqBI14ppU7a4u1A98GRw&s) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOPCm4-8idEugVAlzqBI14ppU7a4u1A98GRw&s) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/145 "2025-08-12T19:38:13Z")
That is not one of the three things that I know? Please explain for us slower folks… ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/146 "2025-08-12T20:18:24Z")
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble\_Bobble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_Bobble) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/147 "2025-08-12T23:35:28Z")
Figured it was something like that. I know many old games but not that one. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/148 "2025-08-13T00:43:14Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > If your position is that Canada can make no international policy choices that differ from the US or they will inflict debilitating economic damage, then you are arguing the country needs to be a vassal state. Cloaking that loss of independence in the guise of pragmatism doesn’t actually change the end result. My position, as any sane person should be in alignment with, is when involved in tense negotiations with your major trading partner and that affect the lives of the people you supposedly represent that you hold off on the base pandering until those negotiations have been resolved. Why is that a sovereignty issue? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/149 "2025-08-13T00:46:30Z")
Objecting to mass starvation of children is now “base pandering,” got it. Is it ever possible to have genuine concern about gross human rights violations, or do they always amount to pandering? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/150 "2025-08-13T00:54:08Z")
So…. Pandering to the base, is it? > “The perception in Canada that genocide is taking place has increased significantly from 41 per cent in February 2024 to 52 per cent now,” Angus Reid reports in the polling it released Thursday morning.” 52 percent of Canadians is hardly “the base” now, is it? I suggest you are so wrapped up in your Conservative Party bubble that you have lost all concept of what the majority of Canadians are thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/151 "2025-08-13T01:09:54Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Objecting to mass starvation of children is now “base pandering,” got it. > > Is it ever possible to have genuine concern about gross human rights violations, or do they always amount to pandering? Explain why the announcement had to happen at that exact time? Explain how that announcement helped starving kids in Palestine? Explain how that announcement helped the negotiations between Hamas, Israel, and the US other than embolden Hamas and allow them to withdraw? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/152 "2025-08-13T01:26:03Z")
Explain why should Trump care what’s Canada foreign policy? (OR I could phrase this: “why should Canada care… about Trump caring about Canada’s foreign policy?”) Trump made a show of abdicating all their soft power and influence on the political scene when they took the isolationist route and decided to tariff us and the world. Trump even directly cashed out any military clout by tieing them to tariff retaliation. If Trump burns 90 years of US economic clout and foreign influence OF COURSE the EU and Canada will start taking their own stances independent to the US. Israel is just the most pressing issue relating to this shift. Trump burning bridges is the US is cutting off its own nose in sooo many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/153 "2025-08-13T03:44:28Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Gorsnak](#): > > > > Objecting to mass starvation of children is now “base pandering,” got it. > > > > Is it ever possible to have genuine concern about gross human rights violations, or do they always amount to pandering? > > Explain why the announcement had to happen at that exact time? Explain how that announcement helped starving kids in Palestine? Explain how that announcement helped the negotiations between Hamas, Israel, and the US other than embolden Hamas and allow them to withdraw? I’ll note you didn’t answer my question, “Is it ever possible to have genuine concern about gross human rights violations, or do they always amount to pandering?” Instead, you deflected with a series of questions where your imagined answers imply that the concern isn’t genuine. I’m not overly inclined to debate the details of the Israel-Hamas war, but suffice it to say that western nations have been imploring Israel for _months_ to allow adequate food and other humanitarian aid into Gaza, and Israel has been ignoring those pleas. Why now exactly? Because earlier diplomatic attempts failed, and the situation is worsening. Will this help? Fuck if I know, I’m not a Bibi whisperer, but the alternative is mass starvation of children, which normal people object to. Signing on to a diplomatic move being made by several other western allies would in normal times be an utterly unremarkable thing to do. But none of that relates to my question. Is it ever possible to be genuinely concerned about gross human rights violations? Or is that always pandering? Because if your answer is no, it’s always pandering, then discussing the details with you is completely pointless as you’re not open to any actual discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/154 "2025-08-13T10:38:43Z")
I answered in my reply: “Explain how the announcement helped starving kids in Palestine?”. Explain it. And then answer, “Explain how that announcement helped the negotiations between Hamas, Israel, and the US other than embolden Hamas and allow them to withdraw?”. Hamas withdrew as soon as the announcements were made. How does that help starving kids in Palestine to torpedo ongoing negotiations? It’s pandering when the timing makes little sense, and the only real beneficiary is the politician—using it to distract from their failure, or lack of effort, to deliver on election promises. It’s even more cynical when the move keeps supporters focused on hating Trump rather than recognizing the politician’s inability to achieve meaningful results. To be clear: Canada announcing support for Palestine and starving children has zero effect on what Israel (and Egypt) does or does not do. It does not help starving children in the least. But it certainly has an effect on the US and screwed their negotiations with Israel/Palestine and screwed any deal we were currently trying to make with them. But as I understand it there are no ongoing negotiations on tariffs with the US as they think ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/155 "2025-08-13T11:01:13Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Explain why the announcement had to happen at that exact time? Maybe you can tell us when the exact perfect time is to object to an ongoing and worsening humanitarian crisis. I wasn’t aware that there was an exact perfect time to do this. Trying to appease a mentally defective wannabe dictator is not the answer and is an exercise in futility. Trump will be gone in a few years, but our principles have prevailed for centuries past and will prevail for centuries more. Our principles are part of our national identity. > [@Uzi](#): > > Explain how that announcement helped starving kids in Palestine? Explain how that announcement helped the negotiations between Hamas, Israel, and the US Netanyahu was recently quoted railing about the “conspiracy of lies” against Israel in the international media. The pragmatic translation is that he knows that international opinion is strongly against him, and that this has consequences. This can be a powerful motivator. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/156 "2025-08-13T13:21:52Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I answered in my reply: “Explain how the announcement helped starving kids in Palestine?”. Explain it. No, this is utterly unresponsive to my question. I asked if there were any possibility of genuine concern for human rights violations. Your answer is that you contend Carney’s actions didn’t do anything to help that. But if we grant that, all that means is that it doesn’t work, not that it wasn’t done out of genuine concern. And you keep harping on the timing, when the timing was initially instigated by Macron and Starmer, not Carney. Once again, is there _anything whatsoever_ that could have been done that you might concede was done out of genuine concern for the mass starvation etc? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/157 "2025-08-13T14:05:41Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Once again, is there _anything whatsoever_ that could have been done that you might concede was done out of genuine concern for the mass starvation etc? [$411M in aid to Yemen](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2023/02/canada-announces-funding-in-continuing-response-to-humanitarian-crisis-in-yemen.html) Concrete action vs platitudes. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Netanyahu was recently quoted railing about the “conspiracy of lies” against Israel in the international media. The pragmatic translation is that he knows that international opinion is strongly against him, and that this has consequences. This can be a powerful motivator. 2006-2024 141 UN resolutions against Israel vs 68 for all other combined. I’m pretty sure every Israeli is aware of what the international opinion of them is. Carney jumping on the bandwagon likely means nothing to him. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/158 "2025-08-13T14:16:44Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > [$411M in aid to Yemen](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2023/02/canada-announces-funding-in-continuing-response-to-humanitarian-crisis-in-yemen.html) Concrete action vs platitudes. You mean like this? > **[Canadian Armed Forces air drop humanitarian assistance in Gaza](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2025/08/canadian-armed-forces-air-drop-humanitarian-assistance-in-gaza.html)** > > The CAF employed a CC-130J Hercules aircraft to conduct an airdrop of critical humanitarian aid in support of Global Affairs Canada into the Gaza Strip. The air drop consisted of 21,600 pounds of aid. The big problem in Gaza is that airdrops are ridiculously inadequate bandaids but Israel won’t allow proper delivery of aid. So to achieve a real solution Israel has to be convinced to change their stance. They are obviously reluctant to do so, and Canada has relatively little power to change their mind. Does the fact that there’s a strong possibility that all diplomatic pressure on Israel to allow proper delivery of aid is likely to fail mean that we should stand by doing nothing? Or is joining our allies in applying what pressure we can a reasonable thing to do, at least in principle if not in the details of the specific actions that have been taken? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/159 "2025-08-13T14:40:33Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Or is joining our allies in applying what pressure we can a reasonable thing to do, at least in principle if not in the details of the specific actions that have been taken? Our ally is the USA. They provide the military that would protect us if needed. Carney should be looking after Canadians first, who will shortly be in food lines if he doesn’t do anything about the tariffs and make progress on his other promises, and not making empty gestures in lieu of doing that. He has thrown a wrench in the negotiations with the US twice now, the digital services tax and Palestine. But elbows up and all. It is the fight that matters, not the resolution. We’ll prove Trump the crazed lunatic that he is even if we have all live in tents. The good thing about that is that we can all claim to be Indigenous living off the land and all. Carney won’t care 95% of his money is in the US, only 0.5% is in Canada and Canadian companies. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850/160 "2025-08-13T15:00:19Z")
So many things wrong with this post. First, the USA is not much of an ally these days. Second, France, UK, etc are also allies, and more reliable ones than the US at the moment. Third, I’ll assume you meant the food lines thing as rhetorical hyperbole because it’s otherwise ridiculous. Finally, as you’ve circled back around to claiming the Palestinian thing as primarily throwing a wrench in negotiations with the US, I’m going to conclude that your final answer to my question about whether it’s possible for the Canada to act out of genuine concern for Palestinians to be a no. You believe there is nothing we can or should do to help starving Palestinians, at least if there is any chance it might irritate Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-s-carney-doing-canada/1017850.md?page=9)