# How scary is the Muslim Brotherhood? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412 "2012-05-29T04:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/41 "2012-06-24T19:23:39Z")
[Morsy definitely wins.](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/201262412445190400.html) Celebrations in the streets. I guess now we’ll find out how scary the MB is. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/42 "2012-06-24T21:45:53Z")
The runoff results are somewhat suprising considering the preliminary results. Here are the %s and ideologies of the five candidates who won over 2% of the popular vote (put together they won 97.76% of the PV). [COLOR=black][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2]24.78 Islamist Morsi (Muslim Brotherhood candidate)[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][COLOR=black][FONT=Trebuchet MS]23.66 Secular Shafic (Former Air Force Chief; Mubarak’s last Prime Minister) 20.72 Secular Sabahi (Dissident Jailed by Mubarak; Nasserite) 17.47 Islamist Fotouh (Long-time leading Muslim Br. figure, resigned 2011) 11.13 Secular Moussa (Career diplomat under Mubarak) 55.51 Secular candidates share of PV 42.25 Islamist candidates share of PV So the three secular candidates won a substantial 13% more than the two Islamists. My guess is that the secular faction favoring the dissident Sabahi sat out the runoff rather than vote for Shafic, who haad been a member of the party which threw their candidate in jail. Also, the true will of the people is obscured by the very low turnout in both election rounds– 1st round: 46.42 second round: 51.85 However, it seems there is reason to hope that the Islamists do not have the numbers to impose anything resembling theocratic rule, and they may not even comprise a majority of the electorate. [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/43 "2012-06-25T14:49:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The word “Copt” is just another word for “Egyptian,” BTW, but nowadays it is used to mean specifically [Coptic Christians.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Christians) WRT Christology, the Copts are (mostly) monophysites, which makes them heretics to all Catholics, Orthodoxers and Protestants, but there seems to be some foreign coreligionist sympathy for them anyway, at least when Muslims come down on them. Wow. I’ve been linked to that page before, and it has nothing about their beliefs. I had to go to a separate [Monophysitism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monophysitism) article to find out anything. You might be better off linking to the [BBC page](http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/coptic_1.shtml) in the future (at least, until I can get Wiki fixed). Also, that article says the monophysitism is not nearly as big a deal as it used to be, which I as a Christian agree with. It doesn’t bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/44 "2012-06-25T15:29:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, it seems what they have there just now is a counterrevolution, i.e., a coup by the military establishment. Better the Ogdamned MB than **that!** I told you so! :: whines :: ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/45 "2012-06-25T16:58:41Z")
I just read that Morsy plans on ‘reviewing’ the Camp David peace accord with Israel. And on renewing ties with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/46 "2012-07-08T20:12:40Z")
Ooh! Now **this** is going to get interesting! [President Morsy just summoned Parliament to reconvene, in defiance of the military’s orders.](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/07/201278153339685112.html) ---
**Author:** ![L.mo5rg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@L.mo5rg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/L.mo5rg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/47 "2012-07-08T21:07:39Z")
Not sure if this has already been mentioned but Morsy is no longer part of the Muslim Brotherhood. And MB isn’t very scary. Unless your an MB member (or ex-member) you would find it quite difficult to identify that the person you’re talking to is an MB member, especially as the MB operate under different names in different countries. They’re normal people who have a vision, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/48 "2012-07-08T21:34:33Z")
> [@L.mo5rg](#): > > Not sure if this has already been mentioned but Morsy is no longer part of the Muslim Brotherhood. 😕 What do you mean? He’s still part of the Freedom & Justice Party, isn’t he? And the FJP is the MB’s electoral-political wing in Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/49 "2012-07-08T21:50:05Z")
> [@L.mo5rg](#): > > Not sure if this has already been mentioned but Morsy is no longer part of the Muslim Brotherhood. > > And MB isn’t very scary. Unless your an MB member (or ex-member) you would find it quite difficult to identify that the person you’re talking to is an MB member, especially as the MB operate under different names in different countries. They’re normal people who have a vision, that’s all. What’s their vision? ---
**Author:** ![L.mo5rg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@L.mo5rg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/L.mo5rg)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/50 "2012-07-09T00:45:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 What do you mean? He’s still part of the Freedom & Justice Party, isn’t he? And the FJP is the MB’s electoral-political wing in Egypt. No he left it, one of the stupid promises he made in order to get the people’s favour. I mean fine leave the MB but FJP that was a bit silly IMO. (As a side note about 50% of the FJP isn’t MB) > [@Alessan](#): > > What’s their vision? Well there have been books written explaining it lol. I think in short they want a unification of Muslims under one caliphate, and under that comes stuff like the arab countries unifying and working together and stuff like that. They also want(ed) to re-introduce Islamic thought and get Muslims to be more religious and stuff. Not sure if they still do cause when they started off barely anyone prayed and barely any women wore hijab etc (talking about Egyptian MB) and now they do, but I’m pretty sure they’re still working on it. They separated MB from other prisoners cause they made all the prisoners they were with religious, and they became good people etc. It’s been a while since I’ve read the books and most of my recent involvement has been in the political side (well I was never involved in any other side). But basically they want to create an Islamic state (not just egypt but like all muslim countries). Sorry if I’m not very coherent it’s almost 2 am and I’ve been working for hours. I’m sure I can give you a clearer answer once I’ve gotten some sleep (not likely to happen anytime soon :() ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/51 "2012-07-09T00:50:33Z")
> [@L.mo5rg](#): > > They separated MB from other prisoners cause they made all the prisoners they were with religious, and they became good people etc. 😕 Why wouldn’t a prison-warden **want** that to happen?! ---
**Author:** ![L.mo5rg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@L.mo5rg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/L.mo5rg)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/52 "2012-07-09T00:59:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why wouldn’t a prison-warden **want** that to happen?! It’s not really about what the prison warden wants, and I doubted he wanted anything other than his paycheck (well maybe more money than that). The state isn’t (wasn’t?) in the business of making people better humans. They are (were?) - ok I’ll stop doing that now - against people becoming religious, and designed the school system so people would become dumber. In egyptian state schools you literally read the textbook out loud to memorise it (and its riddled with errors), and the exam i just about writing out what was in the texbook. If it’s something that has the same meaning but is worded differently it’s wrong. The state needs to have small-time criminals around so they have someone to hire when they need thugs etc. (If you’re having trouble with my coherency refer to my previous post :D) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/53 "2012-07-09T01:25:46Z")
> [@L.mo5rg](#): > > It’s not really about what the prison warden wants, and I doubted he wanted anything other than his paycheck (well maybe more money than that). The state isn’t (wasn’t?) in the business of making people better humans. They are (were?) - ok I’ll stop doing that now - against people becoming religious, and designed the school system so people would become dumber. In egyptian state schools you literally read the textbook out loud to memorise it (and its riddled with errors), and the exam i just about writing out what was in the texbook. If it’s something that has the same meaning but is worded differently it’s wrong. The state needs to have small-time criminals around so they have someone to hire when they need thugs etc. > > (If you’re having trouble with my coherency refer to my previous post :D) I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t believe it. Especially, “The state needs to have small-time criminals around so they have someone to hire when they need thugs etc.” Sounds like the sort of thing an American paranoid-libertarian would write. ---
**Author:** ![L.mo5rg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@L.mo5rg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/L.mo5rg)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/54 "2012-07-09T01:44:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t believe it. Especially, “The state needs to have small-time criminals around so they have someone to hire when they need thugs etc.” Sounds like the sort of thing an American paranoid-libertarian would write. Well they do regularly hire criminals as thugs. I know about a lot of the corruption going on there because (apart from it being common knowledge to most egyptians) traditionally our family has gone into special forces police, so I have a lot of family members who were involved in this (the hiring of thugs) as well as the hiring of riot police and their selection process informs they get the stupidest people so they will follow orders blindly. Regarding the schooling that’s something I experienced myself (albeit briefly) and half the knowledge in the scientific textbooks was utter BS and what we did in class was actually read out of the textbook and memorise it. ---
**Author:** ![L.mo5rg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f475e1/32.png) [@L.mo5rg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/L.mo5rg)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/55 "2012-07-09T01:49:18Z")
But the fact is regardles of whether they wanted small time criminals or not, they are invested in getting people to be less religious. A lot of my friends were banned from leading prayers because their voices were really nice so they attracted a lot of people to the prayer. People whose friday sermons are meaningful and go beyond the basic yeah you have to be a good person and pray five times a day etc, are banned from giving sermons and occasionally from entering the country. Films actively portray anyone who is religious as bad, and a regular theme in the 90’s was someone whose life was terrible when they were religious, then they got smart and everything became rosy. Or someone whose life was ruined by Islam in some way or another (in a film I watched today the civil court ruled that the girl could stay with her adopted father who had taken care of her all her life but then the sharia court ruled that she go back to her biological family who had thrown her out on the street) ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/56 "2012-08-01T05:56:54Z")
Well, it’s kind of scary that (unless Israel is totally making shit up, which seems quite unlikely) the left hand of Morsi’s government doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. > [@](#): > > **Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt denies Egypt’s president sent letter to Israeli leader** > > A letter to Israel from Egypt’s new president hoping for regional peace kicked up a stir Tuesday when the Egyptian leader’s Islamist movement denied he sent it. Israel insisted the letter was genuine. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle\_east/in-1st-letter-to-israeli-leadership-egypts-islamist-president-hopes-for-regional-peace/2012/07/31/gJQAvdL9MX\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/in-1st-letter-to-israeli-leadership-egypts-islamist-president-hopes-for-regional-peace/2012/07/31/gJQAvdL9MX_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/57 "2012-08-01T14:18:31Z")
> [@L.mo5rg](#): > > The state isn’t (wasn’t?) in the business of making people better humans. They are (were?) - ok I’ll stop doing that now - against people becoming religious, and designed the school system so people would become dumber. I hope you realize those are two very different, if not incompatible, goals. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/58 "2012-08-01T14:21:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I hope you realize those are two very different, if not incompatible, goals. Nonsense, it’s perfectly possible to be both irreligious and dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/59 "2012-08-01T14:59:14Z")
It’s easy to be all promises and declarations with a grass roots movement until you have an actual stake in power and have to compromise. I realize they have the potential to warp a liberal democratic constitution, but I doubt a truly Western one was really in the cards anyway. They’ve been the Junta’s bogeymen for local pragmatic appeasement and international foreign aid for so long that’s all they know. I don’t think sharia style government is a possibility given Egypt’s culture and political and financial ties with the West so let them try to govern. The new car smell will dissipate but fast. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412/60 "2012-08-01T17:30:04Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Nonsense, it’s perfectly possible to be both irreligious and dumb. But not to be religious and smart. Ever read the work of somebody who is religious and clearly **should** be smart, like C.S. Lewis or St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas? Religion can spoil the finest mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-scary-is-the-muslim-brotherhood/623412.md?page=4)