How scary is the Muslim Brotherhood?

[BrainGlutton]

And then it got worse.

Egyptian liberals have walked out of a meeting to select members of a panel to write the country’s new constitution, charging Islamists of trying to take seats allocated for secular parties.

The walkout on Sunday could throw the writing of the constitution, which would lay out the powers of the presidency, into further disarray at a time when uncertainties mar both the course of the presidential runoff election on June 16 and 17 and the legality of parliament.

[Magiver]

@Mijin

This could work out very well.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a very influential organization throughout the muslim world, based from Egypt.

If the MB give the people what they want, which appears to be to remain broadly secular, that sets quite an example for MB groups outside of Egypt and other Islamic groups. Much more so than a non-religious party installing secular government.

What you’re describing is a Martin Luther moment in history that would start the ball rolling to separate religion from politics.

The same roadblock exists which is the intensity of belief that drives followers to enforce that belief.

[Kozmik]

@PrettyVacant

Nothing will ever be as scary as George Bush.

Which one?

[BrainGlutton]

@Magiver

What you’re describing is a Martin Luther moment in history that would start the ball rolling to separate religion from politics.

The same roadblock exists which is the intensity of belief that drives followers to enforce that belief.

Not an encouraging analogy. Luther kicked off more than a century of religious wars before Age of Reason rolled around.

[Skammer]

@BrainGlutton

Not an encouraging analogy. Luther kicked off more than a century of religious wars before Age of Reason rolled around.

Well yeah, but he felt bad about it.

[voltaire]

@BrainGlutton

Not an encouraging analogy. Luther kicked off more than a century of religious wars before Age of Reason rolled around.

Specifically, his raging antisemitism doesn’t lend any encouragement to the analogy, either.

[carnivorousplant]

@voltaire

Specifically, his raging antisemitism doesn’t lend any encouragement to the analogy, either.

Oh great, now terrorists are going to be nailing feces to the door!

[Magiver]

@BrainGlutton

Not an encouraging analogy. Luther kicked off more than a century of religious wars before Age of Reason rolled around.

It’s not going to happen overnight.

[Alessan]

Egyptian court dissolves Islamist-dominated parliament.

Shit hitting fan in 3, 2, 1…

[BrainGlutton]

Oh, great. The constitutional court just ordered Parliament dissolved.

In another setback for Egypt’s fledgling political process, elected officials have been disqualified and the lower house of parliament dissolved.

The court ruled on Thursday that one third of the seats in the Islamist-dominated parliament were invalid, stirring fresh uncertainty in the politically divided country.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), the country’s ruling military council, then announced that if any part of the parliament is illegal, then the entire body should be dissolved.

Egypt’s constitutional court also ruled against a law that would have barred deposed president Hosni Mubarak’s last prime minister Ahmed Shafiq from standing in this weekend’s presidential poll runoff.

After conflicting reports in Egyptian media over whether a third, or the entire, parliament was to be dismissed, Al Jazeera’s Rawya Rageh obtained a copy of the court decision, which explicitly states that the entire parliament is dismissed because of “constitutional violations”.

[Farmer_Jane]

Yes. And a lot of us said it was going to be rocky a year ago and you still argued it was for the best.

[Magiver]

@Farmer_Jane

Yes. And a lot of us said it was going to be rocky a year ago and you still argued it was for the best.

In respect to the “Arab Spring” I always thought it was the uncertainty factor of religion/culture/politics that made it so.

The feudal system is so hard to understand from a Western cultural perspective because it relies on local connections which are intertwined with religion, culture and politics. For a Democracy to exist something has to change in the social mindset. Something very radical.

It’s not unlike the American revolution which was made up of and fought with local militias loyal to their own group and not a cohesive Federal military institution. The crafting of the US Constitution was an integral step in bringing everybody together under one flag.

[BrainGlutton]

@Magiver

The feudal system is . . .

. . . not something they have.

[Magiver]

@BrainGlutton

. . . not something they have.

tribal, call it what you want. It exists.

[BrainGlutton]

@Farmer_Jane

Yes. And a lot of us said it was going to be rocky a year ago and you still argued it was for the best.

Well, it seems what they have there just now is a counterrevolution, i.e., a coup by the military establishment. Better the Ogdamned MB than that!

[Alessan]

@Magiver

tribal, call it what you want. It exists.

Not so much in Egypt, though. Egypt is perhaps the only true nation-state in the Arab world. It doesn’t have much of a tradition of democracy, perhaps, but it does have a national unity that’s lacking elsewhere.

[XT]

Well, it’s probably moot, since the military has basically seized power in a coup, from what I can tell. :eek:

-XT

[Magiver]

@Alessan

Not so much in Egypt, though. Egypt is perhaps the only true nation-state in the Arab world. It doesn’t have much of a tradition of democracy, perhaps, but it does have a national unity that’s lacking elsewhere.

Thanks for the input. That’s interesting. What word best describes what I’m referring to in the region? Tribal, clan, ???

[tagos]

@Magiver

Thanks for the input. That’s interesting. What word best describes what I’m referring to in the region? Tribal, clan, ???

The question is not whether there is a tribal element in Egypt - of course there is. The question is does it impact on voting now.
This article suggests that one consequence of the revolution has been a significant weakening of the influence of tribal elders, at least in the South.

Her uncle, a prominent member from one of the three main tribes that control most aspects of life in this region, had instructed the clan to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood’s candidate, Mohammed Morsi, in Egypt’s landmark presidential poll.

Instead, she voted for Morsi’s archrival, the more moderate Islamist Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh.

“My uncle told us we need to unify the votes for our family, but everybody just chose who they wanted – especially the youth,” said Ali, 21.

Ali’s independence would’ve been shocking here even a year ago, when the orders of clan leaders were law and their subjects fell in line. But Tahrir Square’s infectious rebel spirit has spread to the upper Nile countryside, residents said, making it very difficult these days for tribal leaders to deliver intact voting blocs to the many candidates courting them.

[BrainGlutton]

Morsy (apparently) wins – FWIW.

The Muslim Brotherhood has declared their candidate, Mohammed Morsi, the winner of Egypt’s presidential runoff, and unofficial vote tallies show him leading the race by more than one million votes.

The group held a press conference early on Monday morning to announce Morsi’s victory. With 12,793 of the country’s roughly 13,000 polling stations reporting, Morsi had 12.7 million votes, while his opponent, Ahmed Shafiq, had 11.84 million, the group said.

<snip>

The Muslim Brotherhood has declared their candidate, Mohammed Morsi, the winner of Egypt’s presidential runoff, and unofficial vote tallies show him leading the race by more than one million votes.

The group held a press conference early on Monday morning to announce Morsi’s victory. With 12,793 of the country’s roughly 13,000 polling stations reporting, Morsi had 12.7 million votes, while his opponent, Ahmed Shafiq, had 11.84 million, the group said.

<snip>
SCAF issues its constitutional annex

The new president will take office amid great political uncertainty.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), Egypt’s military rulers, added to the confusion on Sunday night, when they released their long-awaited “constitutional annex”, a decree outlining the powers of the new president.

Those powers are quite limited: He may declare war, for example, only after seeking SCAF’s approval. The decree also reminds the president that he can call on the military to quell “unrest” inside the country.

SCAF dissolved parliament last week following a ruling by the supreme court, which found the legislature unconstitutional. The court ruled that provisions of the electoral law - which allowed political parties to compete for seats reserved for independent candidates - violated the constitution.

With the legislature gone, the generals reasserted control over the legislative process, and over the country’s budget.

“The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces shall exercise the powers referred to under the first clause of article 56 [the article on legislative power]… until the election of a new People’s Assembly,” the decree states.

The decree issued on Sunday promises fresh legislative elections, but not until a new constitution has been drafted. Before it was dissolved, the parliament appointed a 100-member assembly to draft that constitution; it will be allowed to continue its work, though if it runs into “obstacles”, SCAF will appoint a replacement.

The Muslim Brotherhood was quick to condemn the decree, calling it “null and unconstitutional” in a brief statement on Twitter. Asked about the decree during the group’s press conference, Ahmed Abdel-Atti, Morsi’s campaign co-ordinator, said he expected “popular action” against it in the near future.