How selfish can people be before you consider them morally bad?

[Roderick_Femm]

The problem I have with this OP and much of the discussion, is that I am different from God, I don’t think your thoughts should be held against you. I am different from Jesus in that I don’t think you should be judged (at least not by me) for things you didn’t do.

Most of what the OP seems to be talking about is attitudes and desires. Why do good or necessary things need to be done without complaint? What if you’re only complaining in your head? It doesn’t matter how you feeeeeeel, what matters is what you do.

One final point for me: there are other kinds of judgments besides moral judgments. Maybe New Zealanders just think there are too many idiots here.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

The couch potatoes are the real heroes. No cape required.

Couch potatoes - Germany's pandemic heroes – DW – 11/15/2020

In Germany, there’s an ad campaign that likens heroes of the World Wars to the couch potatoes who stay at home and don’t infect other people during the pandemic.

The ad ends with these words:

A government message then reads: "You too can become a hero by staying at home.‘’

Are the couch potatoes morally better than other people? At the moment, Germany is pushing the narrative that they are.

[MrDibble]

I draw the line somewhere around where people are actively increasing danger to others.

And it’s all very well to grade barhopping > see family as isolated events, but “see family” is not morally neutral even then, especially if you have no control over what that seen family does subsequently, and also if everyone is “seeing their family”. “Private home” is irrelevant, those people are then going to the store, to work - or bar-hopping.

So yeah, there are levels, but “see family” is not anywhere near the bottom level to me, as the OP seems to consider it.

Now, mental health considerations do come into it - but they are trumped by concerns about spreading Find a different, safer mental health crutch. That’s the sacrifice we all are making (I, for one, find clubbing way more mentally beneficial than seeing family, but I deal).

And not wearing a mask when able is more than enough selfish to be morally bad. Scratch that - evil.

@Leaper

How long are you willing to social distance? Years?

Yes

Would you negatively judge someone who expresses concern over doing it for years?

No. I’d only judge them if they did something about it.

Would you judge someone who misses social activities as not caring about saving lives?

No

When people say that mental health is being harmed by extended social distancing, do you believe them, and is it an issue at all to you?

Yes, and yes. But I rate mental health as less important than physical health.

[monstro]

@Leaper

At what point do you feel comfortable in passing moral judgment on folks for prioritizing some personal comfort or preference above the “greater good” in cases like we see today?

I don’t feel comfortable at all. That doesn’t mean I don’t do it, but I don’t like doing it except when the triflin’ behavior is super obvious (e.g., refusing to wear a mask in public indoor spaces).

But I’m not the least bit hesitant to call something stupid. This summer, one of my sisters hosted a big party. Almost everyone who attended the party–including my sister, our aunt, our cousin, and our elderly parents–got COVID. Now, it is possible that they all got infected independent of each other (a belief my sis has latched onto). But even if this were true, it was still a stupid decision to hold a party in the middle of a pandemic. I told my sister this after everyone got out of the hospital and it became clear we weren’t going to have a huge tragedy on our hands. I could tell she was bothered by my harsh assessment, so I don’t bring it up anymore. But it was stupid and I’m never not going to see it as stupid. She can rationalize her decision however she wants, but I’m never going to change my mind about it.

So I try not to evaluate people in terms of morality when it comes to the pandemic. But in terms of intelligence and self-control, sure.

[asahi]

If someone is meeting with family and or friends because they and/or their friends are going insane, I’d probably be inclined to give them a pass on judgment, provided that they take precautions when they meet. If they limit the size of the gathering, have a well-ventilated home or space, wear masks, limit their time indoors, and do all these things and if they mitigate the risks of exposing others after the meeting, then I think they’re being responsible.

I guess the answer to the OP is, it really depends. On the worst end of that scale are those who not only behave carelessly but who act in outright defiance of public health in ways that are blatantly reckless. Like going to a biker rally in Sturgis, without masks, hanging out in bars, and then bringing it back home…that is not just not responsible, that is pathological, and it ought to be criminal.