# How serious was Hitler's flirtation with Norse / Germanic paganism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952 "2017-05-05T21:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/1 "2017-05-05T21:15:30Z")
I seem to recall reading that Hitler at least briefly flirted with the notion of reviving the worship of the Norse / Germanic pagan deities like Odin and Thor. (Perhaps I watched it on a TV show, instead – don’t really remember right now.) Or at least some of his Nazi underlings did. How serious were they? Or is that information even accurate at all? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/2 "2017-05-05T21:29:42Z")
From all accounts, Hitler never believed in any power higher than himself. It was Himmler who was into the Nordic paganism and occult nuttiness. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/3 "2017-05-05T21:52:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > From all accounts, Hitler never believed in any power higher than himself. > > It was Himmler who was into the Nordic paganism and occult nuttiness. True, it was more Himmler and his [SS ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_SS) which were prone to a type of fake-pagan occultism. To such an extent that, reportedly, Himmler was somewhat ridiculed for it even among the Nazi leadership. As for official policies, the Nazi stance on religion can be described as pragmatic in the sense that they did what served their interests. For instance, they did not actively promote the two major Christian churches in Germany (Lutheranism and Catholicism) and rather tried to bring them under their control, but when an opportunity arose to find some kind of [mutually beneficial arrangement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat) with the Vatican to appease Catholic opposition to Nazi rule, they did so. Up until the end of the Third Reich, the two churches were certainly not free to practice their faith in an undisturbed manner, but they were not prohibited either. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/4 "2017-05-06T08:07:35Z")
Lots of his henchmen, like Himmler and Steinschneider, were into the weird Ariosophist shit, but Hitler never seems to have taken it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/5 "2017-05-06T16:09:42Z")
Even if he didn’t believe any of it himself, he did recognize its usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/6 "2017-05-06T21:48:00Z")
Aside from the, as far as I can see, the essentially separate Himmler strain, you do have those associated with the very earliest history of the Nazi Party. Pretty much all of the significant members who’d joined prior to Hitler had interest in this sort of stuff. The likes of Drexler, Eckhart, Rosenberg and Hess. But this hardly translates into Hitler obviously taking any of this especially seriously. Especially given that I’m not sure that any of that cohort wanted to particularly revive those religions. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/7 "2017-05-06T22:37:26Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > True, it was more Himmler and his [SS ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_SS) which were prone to a type of fake-pagan occultism. To such an extent that, reportedly, Himmler was somewhat ridiculed for it even among the Nazi leadership. > > As for official policies, the Nazi stance on religion can be described as pragmatic in the sense that they did what served their interests. For instance, they did not actively promote the two major Christian churches in Germany (Lutheranism and Catholicism) and rather tried to bring them under their control, but when an opportunity arose to find some kind of [mutually beneficial arrangement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat) with the Vatican to appease Catholic opposition to Nazi rule, they did so. Up until the end of the Third Reich, the two churches were certainly not free to practice their faith in an undisturbed manner, but they were not prohibited either. The “accommodation” with Lutheranism was extensive, due to the radical anti-Judaism of Luther of his writings; indeed, the “radical” proposals of his were inconceivable at a state (or other dominion-wide) level, only carried out in extensa by the Nazis, who by then had a century of racial proofs to add to the sacred text. [Here’s a poster as early as 1933](https://sites.google.com/site/luthersroseofabomination/_/rsrc/1446865414517/home/lara%20stang%20149.jpg?height=343&width=400). [Paperback at Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/Jews-Their-Lies-Martin-Luther/dp/1593640242). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/8 "2017-05-06T23:04:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even if he didn’t believe any of it himself, he did recognize its usefulness. That he did- which is why JRR Tolkien, who loved Germanic folklore more than anyone on Earth, called Hitler “a ruddy little ignoramus” who understood nothing of the mythology he tried to exploit. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/9 "2017-05-07T01:23:40Z")
I’d say it was for the best Hitler wasn’t into that stuff. If he was, things could have gotten [real ugly](http://will.tip.dhappy.org/blog/Porn%20Recommender/.../book/by/David%20Brin/Thor%20Meets%20Captain%20America/David%20Brin%20-%20Thor%20Meets%20Captain%20America.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/10 "2017-05-07T03:00:51Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Up until the end of the Third Reich, the two churches were certainly not free to practice their faith in an undisturbed manner, but they were not prohibited either. I think it’s more accurate to say that they were not prohibited yet. Christianity had deep roots in Germany and the rest of Europe and the Nazis would have risked public support if they tried to abolish it. But it’s clear that Christianity’s eventual abolition was part of the Nazis’ long term plans once they had won the war and were securely in power. It’s an open question whether they would have tried to replace Christianity with neo-paganism or state atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/11 "2017-05-07T11:22:44Z")
Not very, according to Speer in _Inside the Third Reich_, which quotes Hitler describing Himmler’s penchant for paganism as; _What nonsense! Here we have at last reached an age that has left all mysticism behind it, and now he wants to start that all over again. We might just as well have stayed with the church. At least it had tradition. To think that I may some day be turned into an SS saint! Can you imagine it? I would turn over in my grave._ Well, no danger of that now, Adolf. He was also rather embarrassed by the Reichsfuhrer SS’s forays into archaeology. _Why do we call the whole world’s attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn’t enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations!_ ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/12 "2017-05-07T11:25:18Z")
Read the Wikipedia article on [Positive Christianity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity), the Nazi’s attempt to form an alternate Protestant church. (Not to be confused with the [German Evangelical Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Evangelical_Church) which was an attempt to form an umbrella organization covering the Protestant churches.) Reading the summary of beliefs of the Positive Christian church, it’s Christian in name only. This would likely to have been the basis for a national, sole, church in the long run if things went differently. But Hitler himself would have only mouthed support for such a church. He wouldn’t have been any sort of true believer. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/13 "2017-05-08T14:13:49Z")
Thanks for all the fascinating information. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-serious-was-hitlers-flirtation-with-norse-germanic-paganism/785952/14 "2017-05-08T14:26:46Z")
On this subject [here](http://mentalfloss.com/article/29578/how-f%C3%BChrer-stole-christmas) is an interesting article on Nazi attempts to secularize Christmas.