# How seriously fucked would the US be if a foreign power destroyed the US' satellites? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341 "2018-03-10T16:01:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/1 "2018-03-10T16:01:04Z")
I’ve been reading and hearing about weapon programs that target satellites for many years. How worried should we be? It seems like we’ve incorporated them into the very fabric of our country. GPS for example, is used in industry. [https://www.business.com/articles/how-gps-revolutionized-technology-today/](https://www.business.com/articles/how-gps-revolutionized-technology-today/) GPS is used in managing inventory in large warehouses. > **[Make it happen | DELMIA – Dassault Systèmes](https://www.3ds.com/products-services/delmia/)** > > Explore DELMIA - global operations software that helps producers of goods and services make it happen! Contact us for a demo. GPS has become a vital part of farming. That’s our nation’s food supply. [https://www.gps.gov/applications/agriculture/](https://www.gps.gov/applications/agriculture/) Satellite communication is another vital field. You’ve seen those dishes on the roofs of every store? That’s transmitting banking and other information. I doubt modern POS Systems will work without that link. Imagine a preemptive strike against the US’ most important satellites. Would that bring mass confusion and panic? Perhaps even destabilize the government, banks, businesses, and end the US as it’s known today? That’s todays question. Has seriously fucked would the US be if a foreign power destroyed the US’ satellites? Then consider an EMP attack coordinated with the destruction of the satellites? > **[Failure to Protect U.S. Against Electromagnetic Pulse Threat Could Make 9/11...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2014/07/31/protecting-the-u-s-against-the-electromagnetic-pulse-threat-a-continued-failure-of-leadership-could-make-911-look-trivial-someday/#c2482487a147)** > > Electromagnetic pulses - from a determined enemy or a solar storm - have catastrophic potential for the U.S. power grid. Unfortunately, Washington's response to this threat is almost non-existent. Are we much too reliant on technology? ---
**Author:** ![thatguyjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@thatguyjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatguyjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/2 "2018-03-10T16:11:03Z")
My understanding of the GPS system was that it was a global effort intended for global use, not just the US. If someone destroyed those satellites, they would be without GPS as would the rest of the world, not just the US. A lot of telecom satellites are privately owned. Taking one or more of those out would just deprive those customers from their services. Between all the us corporations that own satellites and those of the US gov’t, there has to be hundreds of them. Most of those corporations are providing services around the world. Another country would need the capability to bring down hundreds. Is it known which are specifically military? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/3 "2018-03-10T16:58:14Z")
there are competing GPS satellite systems. If one goes they all go. We’d go back to microwave towers and fiber optics to fill the gap ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/4 "2018-03-10T17:04:59Z")
thatguyjeff has it, though. How many scores of satellites would you have to take out to cripple the US? Even if someone proved the capability, they could not expect the USA to sit silently and allow it to happen. I’d bet money there are backup satellites sitting on the shelf at Vandenburg and the NSA shuttle would be launched to counter-attack, along with our own AEGIS ships and their ASAT capabilities. And then low orbit is so filled with debris that no one can use it for a few centuries and even basic launches are risky. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/5 "2018-03-10T17:13:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … Has seriously fucked would the US be if a foreign power destroyed the US’ satellites? … Not nearly as “seriously fucked” as the foreign power would be. ---
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/6 "2018-03-10T17:43:22Z")
There are options utilizing alternate technologies [https://www.army.mil/article/168019/no\_gps\_listen\_to\_vlf\_radio\_signals\_to\_find\_way\_home](https://www.army.mil/article/168019/no_gps_listen_to_vlf_radio_signals_to_find_way_home) [https://rntfnd.org/2016/06/17/darpa-eyes-very-low-frequency-signals-for-pnt-systems-as-gps-backup-govt-executive-magazine/](https://rntfnd.org/2016/06/17/darpa-eyes-very-low-frequency-signals-for-pnt-systems-as-gps-backup-govt-executive-magazine/) Technology used to transmit strategic communications is generally protected against EMP. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/7 "2018-03-10T18:30:07Z")
Scientific American has a good article on space warfare. All the major powers have been researching it. The Chinese did an Anti-satellite missile test in 2007. > **[War in Space May Be Closer Than Ever](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/war-in-space-may-be-closer-than-ever/)** > > China, Russia and the U.S. are developing and testing controversial new capabilities to wage war in space despite their denial of such work > [@](#): > > There are many ways to disable or destroy satellites beyond provocatively blowing them up with missiles. A spacecraft could simply approach a satellite and spray paint over its optics, or manually snap off its communications antennas, or destabilize its orbit. Lasers can be used to temporarily disable or permanently damage a satellite’s components, particularly its delicate sensors, and radio or microwaves can jam or hijack transmissions to or from ground controllers. > **[2007 Chinese anti-satellite missile test](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test)** > > On 11 January 2007, China conducted an anti-satellite missile test. A Chinese weather satellite—the FY-1C (COSPAR 1999-025A) polar orbit satellite of the Fengyun series, at an altitude of 865 kilometres (537 mi), with a mass of 750 kilograms (1,650 lb)—was destroyed by a kinetic kill vehicle traveling with a speed of 8 km/s (18,000 mph) in the opposite direction (see Head-on engagement). It was launched with a multistage solid-fuel missile from Xichang Satellite Launch Center or nearby. > Aviati... ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/8 "2018-03-11T00:45:33Z")
> [@thatguyjeff](#): > > My understanding of the GPS system was that it was a global effort intended for global use, not just the US. That piece is incorrect (wiki gives a [decent overview](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System) of the history without going too deep into the weeds.) The GPS system was developed by the US Department of Defense. There was an interest in global use …by US military forces. The system is still wholly owned by the US Government and operated by the US Air Force. For a period ending in 2000 they routinely broadcast signals that gave less accurate location fixes to those without US military receivers, although that capability got shut off and then left off of newer satellites designs. The US government can still selectively deny access to the system; that capability got used during the 1999 Kargil War between India and Pakistan. There are still limits put in place by the US government and military specific channels that require classified hardware capable of decrypting the military signal. There are a number of other satellite positioning systems operated by major countries and the EU. Only Russia and the EU operate systems with a global reach. That’s a response to the US control of GPS in an era when satellite positioning has become so heavily relied upon in civilian use. A given “GPS reciever” may be able to use signals from other systems satellites to still provide location information. That doesn’t make GPS an international system. It just means it’s not the only system. GPS has been and remains a US system able to be unilaterally turned off or limited by the US as an instrument of national power. There’s a reason why other nations spent so money developing their own systems. An Airman with a keyboard is a more effective means for attacking satellite capabilities than even the most effective ASAT weapon as long as you control the satellites in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-seriously-fucked-would-the-us-be-if-a-foreign-power-destroyed-the-us-satellites/810341/9 "2018-03-11T01:16:12Z")
Loss of communication satellites would be a major hassle, but it wouldn’t be crippling. Everything would still work, just much slower (especially intercontinental communications). All communications nowadays go through the Internet in some form or another, and the Internet is designed to re-route around damaged connections. GPS satellites would also be annoying to lose, but they’re also in a higher orbit than most satellites, and hence harder to attack and less vulnerable to a debris cascade from the destruction of other satellites.