# How should a person accused of racism respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942 "2021-12-12T17:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/161 "2021-12-15T17:42:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If actual assault weren’t in the cards, there wouldn’t be a drunk man following me around room to room making Hitler salutes You’ve never had someone just drunkenly push your buttons? Must be nice. > [@Max\_S](#): > > The same cannot be said of a person cracking racist jokes for laughs. Like fuck, it cannot. You can’t be _that_ oblivious to the very real threat racists pose to PoCs. It _starts_ for laughs, it _ends_ at a tree. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/162 "2021-12-15T17:44:27Z")
And normalizing the laughs makes it a whole lot more likely that it’ll end at a tree. Or, in the case of the drunken passes, at a rape. Or, in the case of the Nazi – well, we all know where that goes. Except, apparently, that some of us don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/163 "2021-12-15T17:44:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like fuck, it cannot. You can’t be _that_ oblivious to the very real threat racists pose to PoCs. It _starts_ for laughs, it _ends_ at a tree. So there is a threat of assault? or isn’t there? It makes a difference IMO. If there’s a threat of assault it doesn’t make sense to aggressively demand an apology. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/164 "2021-12-15T17:45:38Z")
There is always an implied threat of assault in such cases. ETA: If we lived in a world with no rape, a drunken persistent pass at a party would just be a drunken persistent pass at a party. But we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/165 "2021-12-15T17:46:12Z")
Yup. Later if not immediately. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/166 "2021-12-15T17:47:27Z")
What doesn’t make sense to you makes perfect sense to me, and has all my life. Why march against a racist regime when you know you’re going to get gassed and shot at? We marched anyway. And my point about a party not all being racists was that there’s a threat of an attempted assault, but follow-through would be a problem. Same with the Nazi and the pervert. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/167 "2021-12-15T17:49:40Z")
I guess we can leave it at that. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/168 "2021-12-15T17:50:59Z")
It’s easier to crack a joke or call something so-called ‘propaganda’ in order to dismiss a real concern that is happening in the real world and in the present moment than admit that automatically deferring to an accuser is morally problematic. Especially when pointing out that said accusations are used to advance an ideology that one aligns with. Fake? If fake accusations weren’t a thing we wouldn’t see all these fake so-called hate crimes such as the ‘attack’ on Juicy. That fake accusation could have ruined a couple of innocent people’s lives and the rush to judgement was due in large part to the current environment of automatic deference to the words of an accuser. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/169 "2021-12-15T17:52:42Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If there’s a threat of assault it doesn’t make sense to aggressively demand an apology. It sure as hell makes sense to make a fuss at the party; where, presumably, the threatened person will have help available if needed. (If that seems unlikely, I’d advise getting the hell out of there and making a fuss _about_ the party from a safer location. Although, as @MrDibble points out, there are times and places when it can make sense to stand your ground even at your own risk. I wouldn’t require anybody to do so; but sometimes we only get progress when some are willing to do so. And see the post about normalizing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/170 "2021-12-15T17:52:44Z")
That’s an inadequate response, IMO. Do you admit you’re wrong, and it’s not _automatically_ assholish for minorities to insist on their dignity as human beings, even if it interrupts your Fun? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/171 "2021-12-15T17:55:36Z")
Everyone ought to be able to insist on their dignity as human beings and not only as a member of an arbitrary group at any place and any time. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/172 "2021-12-15T17:57:36Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It sure as hell makes sense to make a fuss at the party; where, presumably, the threatened person will have help available if needed. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Disturbing people to get a drunk man off my back is reasonable. _Confronting a drunk Hitlerite after he backs off_ is asking for trouble. ~Max. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/173 "2021-12-15T17:57:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s easier to crack a joke or call something so-called ‘propaganda’ in order to dismiss a real concern that is happening in the real world and in the present moment. Like you’re dismissing the real concern of racism? > [@octopus](#): > > If fake accusations weren’t a thing we wouldn’t see all these fake so-called hate crimes such as the ‘attack’ on Juicy. Who the hell is “Juicy”? And, for what feels like the three hundred seventeenth time: nobody in this thread has said there’s no such thing as a malicious actor. The existence of an occasional faked accusation does not make everybody else pointing out possible racism into a malicious actor. Nor does it make it remotely reasonable to react to any accusation as if the actor must be malicious, even if the accused meant no harm. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/174 "2021-12-15T17:58:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Everyone ought to be able to insist on their dignity as human beings and not only as a member of an arbitrary group at any place and any time. 👍🏾 😀 👍🏾 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/175 "2021-12-15T17:58:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Do you admit you’re wrong, and it’s not _automatically_ assholish for minorities to insist on their dignity as human beings, even if it interrupts your Fun? I do not. After it’s clear the apology won’t be forthcoming, after the person agrees to stop harassing you, you are an asshole to keep making a row over the apology. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/176 "2021-12-15T17:59:28Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > It sure as hell makes sense to make a fuss at the party; where, presumably, the threatened person will have help available if needed. > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > Disturbing people to get a drunk man off my back is reasonable. _Confronting a drunk Hitlerite after he backs off_ is asking for trouble. > > ~Max. If the guy’s currently on the far side of the room with his mouth momentarily shut, that doesn’t mean he’s going to stay backed off; especially if he thinks he can get me alone later. And see the post about normalization. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/177 "2021-12-15T18:00:21Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If the guy’s currently on the far side of the room with his mouth momentarily shut, that doesn’t mean he’s going to stay backed off; especially if he thinks he can get me alone later. Obtaining a coerced apology will hurt more than help with that threat. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/178 "2021-12-15T18:00:32Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Who the hell is “Juicy”? Probably Jussie Smollett. He apparently faked a hate-based attack and was just found guilty. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/179 "2021-12-15T18:00:33Z")
Confronting a racist is not “making a row”, the row was made when the racist racisted. Racismed. Raced…you get the point. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942/180 "2021-12-15T18:02:03Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I do not. After it’s clear the apology won’t be forthcoming, after the person agrees to stop harassing you, you are an asshole to _ **keep** making a row_ over the apology. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Confronting a racist is not “making a row” It is _continuing_ to make a row, even if it started earlier. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-person-accused-of-racism-respond/955942.md?page=10)