# How should a school deal with pantsing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644 "2009-04-28T17:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/181 "2009-04-29T17:28:15Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Bingo. That’s exactly what I’m saying. > > I never once said that we need a different legal system. Not once. I never mentioned it, not in this thread, or probably in any other (that I can remember off the top of my head). Never said it. > > And yet you insist that I defend that position. I will not, because it never was my position. Please clear it up for me then. Exactly what are you saying? Are you saying that the current legal system is “dumb?” If so, why are you saying that? What is the purpose, if you do not also believe something different would be “less dumb?” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/182 "2009-04-29T17:28:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > IMO it is you who are recharacterizing into absurd terms the position with which you disagree, and then arguing that your rephrasing of their position is “dumb.” Perhaps I have. But “adult male sexually assualted a minor female” is not an exaggeration of what was said. And that’s emotionally charged enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/183 "2009-04-29T17:30:31Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Clearly, you have nothing to back up your opinions, so why not just bow out gracefully? Because we haven’t accepted that a student pranking his classmate isn’t identical in every way to a perverted old man tearing the clothes off of random little girls. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/184 "2009-04-29T17:30:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Please clear it up for me then. Exactly what are you saying? Are you saying that the current legal system is “dumb?” If so, why are you saying that? What is the purpose, if you do not also believe something different would be “less dumb?” No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please read the words I am writing. I’m saying that we need to get some perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/185 "2009-04-29T17:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Here is another question - if this guy is willing to pull down a girl’s pants in front of witnesses at school, what is this guy willing to do to a girl when there aren’t witnesses in private ‘all in fun?’ While I don’t know about the guy in question, I do know that some guys (of whatever age) think it’s a lot of fun to force a female to give a handjob or blowjob or participate in intercourse, and after all, she should just suck it up because she’s not really hurt by such actions. Or they think it’s OK to rub up against the females in a subway, to the point of ejaculation. The woman/girl isn’t really hurt by this, right? Why shouldn’t he get his jollies? The point is, it is WRONG to force someone, anyone, to participate in your idea of fun unless they agree to it and enjoy it themselves. If the girl in question had a history of pantsing guys, that would be a mitigating factor in him pantsing her…but she would also be guilty of harassment. It would be one thing if the guy didn’t have a history of bullying. But he does. And this is, among other things, an act of bullying and harassment. Maybe he would have pantsed another guy, if the opportunity came up. And yes, pantsing a guy should carry the same penalties. In assigning a penalty, I think that we have to consider some things. Does the guy otherwise bully his classmates? By classmates, I mean everyone in his high school. Does the guy ONLY do stuff like this to those mates who are younger or weaker or otherwise unlikely to fight back, or reciprocate? Is he likely to continue this behavior if he’s not given a rather stiff punishment? Will his classmates start doing this sort of thing if he’s not given a stiff punishment? Does this behavior promote an atmosphere of fear among other classmates? I am glad that he’s been declared ineligible for participating in school sports, but I’d still like to see some legal action against him. He needs to learn that he simply cannot get away with these actions. And for whoever was Traumatized by not getting days of the week [panties,](http://www.amazon.com/String-Bikini-Style-Panty-women/dp/B000GDD7H4/ref=pd_sbs_a_5) they’re [available](http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod60650193&ecid=NMCIGiftsFeed&srccode=cii_5217346&cpncode=21-16535990-2) for adult women, too. Note that the Neiman Marcus price is for TWO sets of seven, which is still rather expensive in my opinion, but that’s Neiman Marcus for you. I guess this is so that you can wash one week’s worth while still having another week to enjoy wearing them. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/186 "2009-04-29T17:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps I have. But “adult male sexually assualted a minor female” is not an exaggeration of what was said. And that’s emotionally charged enough. Perhaps someone did say as much. I am pretty certain I did not. edit - just did a search, and the phrase you quote appears to have occurred for the first time in post #182. > [@tdn](#): > > No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. > > Please read the words I am writing. > > I’m saying that we need to get some perspective. We’re obviously talking past each other, and I am not sure what either of us can do to get thrugh to the other. So it is most likely best that we rest where we are. At least I intend to. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/187 "2009-04-29T17:38:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > We’re obviously talking past each other, and I am not sure what either of us can do to get thrugh to the other. So it is most likely best that we rest where we are. At least I intend to. Agreed. I hate spinning my wheels. Especially at the mall. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/188 "2009-04-29T17:40:43Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Upthread someone mentioned that driving 2 mph over the speed limit is just as illegal as driving 50 mph over. Just so. But arguing that going 2 mph over is recklessly dangerous, puts innocent little children at risk, and these menaces to society should be locked up forever is worthy of little more than a rolleyes. But who is arguing that this guy be locked up forever? Most people in this thread on the “take action” side are arguing that the matter should be turned over to the legal authorities instead of the school authorities for them to determine, through due process (a) if a crime has been committed at all (b) what that crime, if any, has been (c) if they should prosecute the crime and finally a trial to determine (d) if the accused committed the crime, if there were mitigating factors to be taken into account, and who his sentence should be if found guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/189 "2009-04-29T17:43:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A 13 year old is a child. Not just by law, but by any other reasonable standard as well. Please inform all of the lawyers of all of the 13 year olds that have been tried as adults they are actually children and should be set free. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > While I don’t know about the guy in question, I do know that some guys (of whatever age) think it’s a lot of fun to force a female to give a handjob or blowjob or participate in intercourse, and after all, she should just suck it up because she’s not really hurt by such actions. Or they think it’s OK to rub up against the females in a subway, to the point of ejaculation. The woman/girl isn’t really hurt by this, right? Why shouldn’t he get his jollies? And once again, we’re back to comparing this to violent rape. :rolleyes: > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > It would be one thing if the guy didn’t have a history of bullying. But he does. And this is, among other things, an act of bullying and harassment. Maybe he would have pantsed another guy, if the opportunity came up. And yes, pantsing a guy should carry the same penalties. We actually don’t know that. The OP has been extremely sparse on further details. And considering that the final punishment appears to be a few days In School Suspension, I can’t imagine the school is very worried about this other. Although I await the impending court case for the VIOLENT HEINOUS OF THIS FRAGILE LITTLE CHILD and it’s eventual Law and Order: SVU adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/190 "2009-04-29T17:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > We actually don’t know that. The OP has been extremely sparse on further details. And considering that the final punishment appears to be a few days In School Suspension, I can’t imagine the school is very worried about this other. The OP did come back and say that the guy has a history of bullying. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/191 "2009-04-29T17:47:52Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > But who is arguing that this guy be locked up forever? Most people in this thread on the “take action” side are arguing that the matter should be turned over to the legal authorities instead of the school authorities for them to determine, through due process (a) if a crime has been committed at all (b) what that crime, if any, has been (c) if they should prosecute the crime and finally a trial to determine (d) if the accused committed the crime, if there were mitigating factors to be taken into account, and who his sentence should be if found guilty. And that’s something I can maybe agree to. Maybe. Even then, it may be a bit of overkill. What I think is absurd is comparing the guy to a dangerous sexual predator because he pantsed someone. I agree that what he did was stupid, but does anyone here actually believe that he’s going to go on to be a serial rapist? That’s the feeling I get. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/192 "2009-04-29T17:48:57Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > The OP did come back and say that the guy has a history of bullying. No, he didn’t. He said _some kids_ think this kid is a bully. We have no way of knowing if the girl or if the people who consider him a bully are being fair. What the OP said: > [@KRM](#): > > I won’t go into detail but I will say that he has been in trouble in the past and some kids regard him as a bully, others do not, my son included. In his defense, he has been through more personally than any child deserves. FWIW, he’s a junior. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/193 "2009-04-29T17:49:14Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > The OP did come back and say that the guy has a history of bullying. He said that opinions vary. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/194 "2009-04-29T17:50:32Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > I was intentionally vague in the OP because I was also interested to see if people’s views differed depending on the male’s history. I won’t go into detail but I will say that he has been in trouble in the past and some kids regard him as a bully, others do not, my son included. In his defense, he has been through more personally than any child deserves. FWIW, he’s a junior. > > I’m not certain how the girl reacted. I know that she did cry but my son indicated that some of that might have come from her reaction to an administrator who also witnessed it (the administrator was indignant to say the least). And here’s the post where the OP says some regard him as a bully and that he has a history of trouble. If “some kids” think he’s a bully, then he’s probably bullied them, or they’ve seen him bully others. And if other kids don’t think he’s a bully, well, they probably haven’t been one of his victims, or seen him in action. If he bullies even one other person, then he’s a bully, IMO. I didn’t compare the pantsing itself to violent rape. I said that pantsing someone in public is the sort of thing that people who have boundary issues do. Forcing someone to give a handjob, blowjob, or sex doesn’t equal violent rape, either. It could be something like taking a female on a drive to a secluded spot, and then telling her to put out or get out. That’s not violent, but it IS rape. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/195 "2009-04-29T17:53:33Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I didn’t compare the pantsing itself to violent rape. I said that pantsing someone in public is the sort of thing that people who have boundary issues do. Forcing someone to give a handjob, blowjob, or sex doesn’t equal violent rape, either. It could be something like taking a female on a drive to a secluded spot, and then telling her to put out or get out. That’s not violent, but it IS rape. It seems that you’re saying that pantsing is non-violent rape. Surely you don’t mean that. Can you clear that up, please? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/196 "2009-04-29T18:04:24Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And that’s something I can maybe agree to. Maybe. Even then, it may be a bit of overkill. > > What I think is absurd is comparing the guy to a dangerous sexual predator because he pantsed someone. I agree that what he did was stupid, but does anyone here actually believe that he’s going to go on to be a serial rapist? That’s the feeling I get. I’m a bad person to ask since I’ve been date raped. A guy I THOUGHT was a reasonable human being forced me to have sex. From the little I know about the individaul in the OP (which, granted, isn’t much) he sounds less reasonable than my rapist. I think this young man should have it be made very clear to him that you need consent before you take certain actions with another person - and one of those actions that requires consent is removing someone else’s clothing. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/197 "2009-04-29T18:09:28Z")
Clearly he has boundary issues, and clearly he needs to see that his actions were wrong. I think we can all agree to that. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/198 "2009-04-29T18:15:42Z")
Opinions of what a “bully” is are obviously going to vary. I have seen and heard of actions from the boy that I would consider “bullying”. Others (my son included) might consider him merely ornery. I think that’s acceptable given that adults and children do not see things from the same POV. I do feel that if the boy doesn’t get help from someone, he will get into much greater trouble down the road. My initial knee-jerk reaction to hearing about the incident was, “OMG. WTF was he thinking? That could be considered sexual assault!” Apparently, the only people with all the necessary information - the school administrators, didn’t feel that it rose to that level. I think that I would have come down on him a little harder than they did but they obviously know more about it than any of us. They could be going easy on him because of all of his personal problems. I don’t know. I just hope that he gets help. I’ve known him for a long time and I think that deep down, he has a good heart. Sometimes he just does things that are wrong just for attention. The whole situation, in its entirety, is just sad. What really surprises me in all of this is that the father of the girl hasn’t kicked the crap out of the boy. I generally oppose vigilante justice, but in this case I might make an acception. Of course, you don’t want to teach the boy that violence is the answer to life’s problems either. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/199 "2009-04-29T18:27:16Z")
I think we need to set aside the fact that it was a school. The boy should be punished exactly as the law would require him to be punished if he started pulling clothes off of an unwilling girl in front of a crowd at the mall, at the beach, in the park, or on a public street. Personally, I think the police should have been called right away. I think it’s probably a stretch to call it rape, but there’s no question it’s assault, possibly harassment, and perhaps it could qualify as sexual assault on a minor. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/200 "2009-04-29T18:35:37Z")
> [@](#): > > but there’s no question it’s assault, Under what legal definition of assault? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644.md?page=11)