# How should a school deal with pantsing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644 "2009-04-28T17:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/141 "2009-04-29T16:06:30Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’m now getting confused. It is a British/American English thing. > > Are we talking about the pulling down of just the trousers or the underwear as well? > > Just the trousers is, well, in the long run not really something that huge. He’s a dick and need disciplining so as to teach him a lesson but nobody needs a permanent criminal record. I’d say a few days suspension. > > If it includes the underwear, so the genitalia was exposed to anyone around, then I’d say expulsion with possible police action depending on the circumstances. How would the assailant know until after he did it? If she happens to be wearing underwear, that’s just a luck of the draw for him. It doesn’t really alter the act. Why should penalties be dependent on variables the offenders have no knowledge or control of? > [@](#): > > I wonder if some here would have the same reaction if it was boy on boy or girl on girl? Already asked and answered on my part. The answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/142 "2009-04-29T16:08:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Not at all. I’m asking you to prove that it is specifically what you claim it to “indisputably” be. Don’t play shitty little games; if it is indisputably a sexual assault you must be able to cite under which law. Why don’t you go tear the bathing suit off a little girl at the beach and see what you get charged with. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/143 "2009-04-29T16:15:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why don’t you go tear the bathing suit off a little girl at the beach and see what you get charged with. Why don’t you just admit you don’t have a cite? These shitty little games that I asked you to eschew are not bolstering your position. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/144 "2009-04-29T16:20:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Are you asserting that it’s legal? Would you be willing to assert that feeling the rear ends of young men is indisputably and always an act of sexual assault? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/145 "2009-04-29T16:25:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > By this list, it’s sexual assault to say “Look at Janie’s boobs!” If you don’t mind my saying, lumping that into the same category of crime as a 10 hour gang rape kind of makes the category a bit too broad to be useful. Except that they aren’t, that’s why you have degrees. First degree assault and fourth degree assault aren’t the same thing (in Minnesota, 4th degree assault is a gross misdominer, 1st-3rd are felonies). But yeah, shouting “look at Janie’s boobs” could be construed as verbal sexual assault. Probably wouldn’t get prosecuted, but it probably IS against the law to do so in many jurisdictions. Going two miles over the speed limit is speeding. Going fifty miles over the speed limit is speeding. One of these is unlikely to get you a ticket - but if the cop pulls you over you HAVE broken the law. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/146 "2009-04-29T16:25:30Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > You may personally consider it “dumb”, but I and some others believe it accurately reflects a legal distinction with significant potential implications. And I believe that such well-established legal conventions are of some benefit. And you steadfastly refuse to suggest a better system. > > Do you have a list of additional long-established legal conventions that you consider dumb and believe ought not be respected? I’m not steadfastly refusing to do anything. I never promised a better legal system, so please take down that particular strawman. What I’m suggesting is that we temper our judgement with a little common sense. And while we’re at it, let’s keep alarmist appeals to emotion out of it. I don’t think that that’s too much to ask. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/147 "2009-04-29T16:32:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s a perfectly valid question. There’s nothing silly or off-point about the hypothetical. If you want to assert that the location of the assault changes its legal nature, you have to explain why. I’m not asserting anything. I’m saying let’s get real here and discuss the situation as we know it rather than bringing up extreme hypotheticals. Your argument of “What if this happened to your [relative]” is nothing but an appeal to emotion, as is “A fully grown adult sexually assaulted a minor!” We’re talking about a high school kid pulling a prank on another high school kid. A stupid and thoughtless prank, I agree, but it’s hardly a case of a pedophile predator claiming yet another innocent life. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/148 "2009-04-29T16:35:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Would you be willing to assert that feeling the rear ends of young men is indisputably and always an act of sexual assault? Without their consent? Yes. So is ripping the clothes off of unwilling children. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/149 "2009-04-29T16:36:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’d still like to know what those defending this dude think would happen if he did this to a child at the mall. I would think that it’s an entirely different situation, just as I would also think it’s entirely different if he did this 2 years from now to another guy at his college fraternity. Why? Because context matters. You want to play what if? How’s about instead of pantsing this girl, he hugged her. I’d bet if he did THAT to a random little girl in the mall, the girl’s parents would be kind of pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/150 "2009-04-29T16:38:23Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’m not steadfastly refusing to do anything. I never promised a better legal system, so please take down that particular strawman. Feel free to consider it a strawman. I, OTOH, will consider criticisms such as your to be of little merit unless you propose a workable alternative. You walk into a bar on your 21st birthday and order a beer. Do you want the bartender to determine whether or not he considers you sufficiently mature to be served? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/151 "2009-04-29T16:41:35Z")
This all reminds me of the case from a few months back where a 14 year old boy took a semi-nude picture of his 13 year old girlfriend then passed it around to his friends. Alarmed parents asked for the heads of these monsters who were doing major harm to the THE CHILDRUUUUN! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/152 "2009-04-29T16:42:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Why don’t you just admit you don’t have a cite? These shitty little games that I asked you to eschew are not bolstering your position. I don’t know if it would be formally charged with sexual assault or not, but I’m reasonably sure it could be. It certainly would be some kind of assault, so it doesn’t really matter what statute it falls under. Illegal is illegal. It’s a criminal assault on a minor, and it’s ridiculous to try to argue that tearing a teenage girls clothes off is not sexual in nature. If your only point is to try to assert that it would be formally charged as some kind of physical battery rather than sexual assault, trhen you’re arguing an irrelevant distinction. It’s still a crime. What do you think would happen if you ripped a girl’s pants down at the mall? Why won’t any of the people defending this dude answer that question? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/153 "2009-04-29T16:43:37Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Feel free to consider it a strawman. Thanks. I will. And you continue to erect it. Please take note that I’m not responding to it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/154 "2009-04-29T16:44:50Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > This all reminds me of the case from a few months back where a 14 year old boy took a semi-nude picture of his 13 year old girlfriend then passed it around to his friends. Alarmed parents asked for the heads of these monsters who were doing major harm to the THE CHILDRUUUUN! So you think it’s no big deal to take naked pictures of little girls and pass them around to other children? You think that does no harm to the victim? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/155 "2009-04-29T16:46:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why won’t any of the people defending this dude answer that question? Because it’s a dumb question that doesn’t merit a response. But since you are so insistant on asking it, I’ll take the bait and answer. No, I don’t think it’s OK to rip a minor girl’s clothes at the mall. And before you ask, amusement parks are right out too, as are airports. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/156 "2009-04-29T16:48:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you think it’s no big deal to take naked pictures of little girls and pass them around to other children? You think that does no harm to the victim? Stop putting words in my mouth. Yes, it’s wrong. What I found ridiculous was that many people wanted the boys to be tried as adults, because they were victimizing an innocent child. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/157 "2009-04-29T16:48:32Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’m not asserting anything. I’m saying let’s get real here and discuss the situation as we know it rather than bringing up extreme hypotheticals. > > Your argument of “What if this happened to your [relative]” is nothing but an appeal to emotion, as is “A fully grown adult sexually assaulted a minor!” > > We’re talking about a high school kid pulling a prank on another high school kid. A stupid and thoughtless prank, I agree, but it’s hardly a case of a pedophile predator claiming yet another innocent life. What would happen if you pulled this “prank” at the mall? I honestly want to know why you think it’s different than doing it at a school. Also, are you asserting that 18 year olds should not be held legally accountable for their actions? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/158 "2009-04-29T16:50:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Stop putting words in my mouth. Yes, it’s wrong. > > What I found ridiculous was that many people wanted the boys to be tried as adults, because they were victimizing an innocent child. They were. I wouldn’t say they should be tried as adults, but they were, in fact, victimizing another child. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/159 "2009-04-29T16:51:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know if it would be formally charged with sexual assault or not, but I’m reasonably sure it could be. What you are “reasonably sure” something “could be” is not the same as “indisputable.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644/160 "2009-04-29T16:51:55Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Because it’s a dumb question that doesn’t merit a response. > > But since you are so insistant on asking it, I’ll take the bait and answer. No, I don’t think it’s OK to rip a minor girl’s clothes at the mall. And before you ask, amusement parks are right out too, as are airports. So why are the rules different in a high school? Can you cite a statutory distinction? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-a-school-deal-with-pantsing/494644.md?page=9)