# How should Bill Cosby be remembered?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 27, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050 "2020-01-27T15:49:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/81 "2020-01-28T04:58:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> Tthere is a dearth of talent in this world
No, there isn’t. That’s the lie the currently-successful people with some talent want you to think. Talent is not a scarce resource.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/82 "2020-01-28T05:05:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> **[Moderating]**
>
> So, **Just Asking Questions** , let me get this straight: You belittled rape in this thread, just to make a point that you don’t like how people are treating Kobe Bryant’s rape, in a thread that isn’t even about Bryant? That’s definitely something… Let’s just call it trolling, OK? Which is worth a Warning.
You don’t have it straight, at all.
I am NOT belittling rape. I don’t even know how you get that. That’s insulting. I am against all rapists, including Kobe, who I said seems to be getting a pass (at least at the time I wrote that - I haven’t been back to that thread, for the reasons that contributed to this warning.).
It is NOT trolling. I said how I think Cosby would (OK, not 'should" I misread that) be remembered. As noted, how is Wagner remembered? Cosby had both funny stuff and did a lot of good. He also did a lot of bad.
History is a fickle mistress, and how this board is treating the death of Kobe has a bit of evidence how history could treat Cosby in the decades to come. If Kobe can be forgiven, if Polanski can be excused, then why not Cosby? I don’t want that - I’m saying it could happen.
Some celebrities getting a pass while others are dumped into the trash bugs me.
I think this warning is incorrect.
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### Author:  [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/83 "2020-01-28T07:34:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> That’s a strange metaphor to choose. If I get food poisoning, I don’t think it was because the food was planning to hurt me.
I was just trying to pick something that would cause a level of torment close to the reality of what Cosby did. I had heard that food poisoning and a broken jaw are the two most painful disease/injury human beings have experienced.
But if you have a better metaphor, I’d like to know what it is.
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### Author:  [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/84 "2020-01-28T11:10:52Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> It’s the one about his father’s belt. I think it was on “ To Russell, My Brother, Whom I Slept With”
Note that Cosby said, “We had never seen the belt, but we had heard about it. The belt was nine feet long, eight feet wide, and it had hooks on it, and it would rip the meat off your body if it ever hit you.” Which indicates that his father had never employed it, but was bluffing to get their attention.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/85 "2020-01-28T14:18:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> No, there isn’t. That’s the lie the currently-successful people with some talent want you to think. Talent is not a scarce resource.
Yes, one of my memes is “Talent is vastly over-rated.” Everyone has several talents that could had made them famous, if they’d had the breaks and tenacity of the people that make it.
One question that hasn’t been brought up: How IS Michael Jackson remembered? As a talented pop singer and dancer, a pedophile or someone who stupidly died too young of a drug overdose?
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/86 "2020-01-28T15:12:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> Yes, one of my memes is “Talent is vastly over-rated.” Everyone has several talents that could had made them famous, if they’d had the breaks and tenacity of the people that make it.
>
> One question that hasn’t been brought up: How IS Michael Jackson remembered? As a talented pop singer and dancer, a pedophile or someone who stupidly died too young of a drug overdose?
I remember Jackson mostly as a thoroughly messed up pedophile. But I never liked his music anyway. I dislike the worship that he got despite being a pedophile.
Cosby should be remembered first as a serial rapist and second for being a great comic and third as a ground breaking television star. (I like I Spy, didn’t like the Cosby Show but both were groundbreaking)
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/87 "2020-01-28T15:18:03Z")
Right. You have a right to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Cosby is in jail for rape. You can believe he’s innocent, but you cannot deny he was found guilty. And I believe OJ Simpson is a double murderer who got off in the criminal trial but was found GUILTY in the civil trial.
ETA: I am a huge Andrew Lloyd Webber fan. You can tell me his songs are horrible, but you cannot deny he’s a phenomenally successful theatre song writer.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/88 "2020-01-28T15:40:15Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> You don’t have it straight, at all.
>
> I am NOT belittling rape. I don’t even know how you get that. That’s insulting.
Maybe you should re-consider your method of communicating your ideas. Looking back through your posts, it’s not at all clear what you’re trying to say.
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> But they are on this board. I don’t isolate threads, take them in a vacuum. Some people excusing celebrities in one thread, and others (or even the same) excoriating other celebrities in other threads bothers me.
We’re actually individual people here. Putting your thoughts in these terms is confusing when we as individuals can’t recall having done any of these things. Maybe you could have been more explicit from the beginning.
> [@](#):
>
> But he has his fans who apparently forgive what he did, with posts like this:
Are these actually quotes from threads on this board? If so, links would have been nice. Actually, knowing the sources of these quotes would be useful.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/89 "2020-01-28T17:54:06Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#):
>
> I was just trying to pick something that would cause a level of torment close to the reality of what Cosby did. I had heard that food poisoning and a broken jaw are the two most painful disease/injury human beings have experienced.
>
> But if you have a better metaphor, I’d like to know what it is.
You could, I dunno, say that what Cosby did was rape.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/90 "2020-01-28T21:54:27Z")
**Just Asking Questions** , if you wish to dispute your warning in public, the place for that is ATMB, not here.
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/91 "2020-01-28T22:08:26Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Predatory serial rapist abusing icon level, celebrity and influence to evade detection for decades.
All while taking the moral high ground over other people, especially and openly with young black comedians like Eddie Murphy and others. Eddie Murphy, at least to me, was one of the few people that never bowed to Bill Cosby and saw through his whole persona.
It’s incredible that it took that routine from Hannibal Buress(another comedian he criticized) to openly discuss the widely known “open secret” that Bill Cosby had a history of abuse.
The ripple effect of his abuse goes on and on. Geoffrey Owens, who played Alvin on the Cosby Show, had lived off the residuals from the Cosby Show while he looked for other acting jobs. The show is not as widely syndicated as it was and he lost a ton of very important income.
I could never watch a Cosby comedy act again and my kids are not growing up watching the Cosby Show.
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/92 "2020-01-29T13:05:57Z")
The face of hypocrisy.
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### Author:  [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/93 "2020-01-29T16:19:08Z")
In addition to the two main viewpoints presented above (groundbreaking comedian and disgusting serial rapist) I would have to add: the guy who punched out Tommy Smothers in the Playboy Mansion.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/94 "2020-01-29T16:21:23Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#):
>
> In addition to the two main viewpoints presented above (groundbreaking comedian and disgusting serial rapist) I would have to add: the guy who punched out Tommy Smothers in the Playboy Mansion.
OK, please expand, this is new to me.
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### Author:  [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/95 "2020-01-29T16:30:26Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Oh, well, that’s OK I guess. Only ONE. I’m sure the victim feels much better. He only raped one woman. Easy to forgive.
Nobody is saying the one rape is okay. It’s obviously not. But it was asked (by you or someone else, I’m not sure) why people aren’t commenting so much on Kobe’s actions, yet they are on Cosby’s. It’s because Cosby was more universally known, had more victims, and was actually convicted. That does not make what Kobe did okay. But one of those instances is going to be FAR more prevalent to most people, and it’s really isn’t a mystery as to why.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/96 "2020-01-29T16:39:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> OK, please expand, this is new to me.
They had very different political views. [From here:](https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/11/the_case_of_bil.html)
> [@](#):
>
> In October of 1976, Cosby and Smothers were attending the same party at The Playboy Mansion. Hoping to ease some of the tension, Tom congratulated Bill on his latest television series. What Smothers did not realize was that the show in question had been cancelled the day before. “I liked your show,” said Tom, “it was a really good effort.” Cosby didn’t respond. “He just looked at me [as if to say] ‘Fuck you,’ and I said, ’ Well, Fuck you.’ … and walked away. I’d been getting this kind of thing from him for a long time. It started when he was hosting The Tonight Show. He had this kind of dismissive way of introducing people … and I nailed him - you know, comedic oneupmanship—and I remember he said, ‘Maybe sometime I’ll knock you upside the head one of these days,’ and I said, ‘Yeah, go ahead and try.’ A couple months later … boom … there it was. I should never have turned my back on him. He didn’t have the balls to do it when I was looking. He slipped behind Hefner and sucker-punched me. He hit me right in the head with his fist - knocked me down … and I was down there a minute or two and he was standing over me screaming at me, ‘C’mon, I’ll kick your ass,’ stuff like that. I’ve never seen him since then. I always thought, maybe if he turns around sometime I might give him a shot.”
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### Author:  [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/97 "2020-01-29T16:48:33Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> And I believe OJ Simpson is a double murderer who got off in the criminal trial but was found GUILTY in the civil trial.
He was found liable in the civil trial, not guilty.
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### Author:  [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/98 "2020-01-29T21:16:37Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> Bill Cosby has not died, but another recent celebrity death brought to mind the fact that Bill Cosby is 82 years old and may not be with us for many more years.
>
> How should he be remembered when he dies?
How about as a malevolent, high-functioning, psychopathic rapist who worked in the entertainment industry?
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### Author:  [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/99 "2020-01-29T21:38:59Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#):
>
> So, when it comes to being remembered by history, should we be attending or listening to raging anti-semite Richard Wagner’s works today?
You probably don’t want to look too closely at any artist/entertainer you enjoy. Most will disappoint and many may cause disgust. How they are evaluated in such bad light is a matter of proportion. Yes, Wagner was a raging anti-Semite; however, as far as I know he did not physically abuse any Jews. If Cosby was just a sexist heel, his comedy would probably, still, eclipse his faults. Cosby’s problems appear to run far deeper than un-checked lust or a misogynistic streak. He seems to relish controlling, abusing and humiliating vulnerable women who trust him enough to come in close orbit. That, I feel, overshadows all of his other accomplishments.
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### Author:  [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)
#### Post date: [January 31, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-bill-cosby-be-remembered/847050/100 "2020-01-31T03:50:59Z")
There was more than one Bill Cosby. Sure, there was comedian Cosby and rapey Cosby, but there was also bathtub Cosby, curiosity Cosby, data analysis Cosby, and the list goes on…
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