# How should Clinton press the debate advantage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 28, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099 "2016-09-28T01:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/61 "2016-09-30T02:00:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think Clinton’s one major weak moment was when Trump confronted her on the TPP. She stumbled her way out of that and a better opponent would have seized on her inability to respond and continued to hammer the point. Trump will attack her again on that. She can’t afford to make that mistake again. I actually agree with this. She started to answer like John Kerry – “I was for it before I was against it…” – but caught herself and haltingly give some nuanced but unconvincing reply. But hey, her one weak moment … can’t complain. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/62 "2016-09-30T02:07:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What is he afraid of? What is in there that he does not want the public to see? We don’t really need to know any more. Clinton successfully goaded him into admitting he doesn’t pay taxes, and “that makes him smart”. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/63 "2016-09-30T02:16:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hillary has been repeatedly lying about releasing her emails, among other things, for a very long time. And the FBI keeps releasing more and more of her emails. And those emails prove that Hillary has been lying. What kind of advantage does Hillary have by being proven a liar? Who wants to hire a liar to work for them? At least when Hillary lies, she sticks to her story. Trump can’t even remember what he said. When he actually tells the truth, it’s only because of random chance. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/64 "2016-09-30T02:26:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That is Trump’s excuse. And as has been pointed out, the IRS says that Trump may certainly release his tax returns if he chooses - being under audit does not mean that he cannot. This HAS BEEN MADE CLEAR TO YOU. > > This is simply Trump’s excuse. Don’t just parrot his excuse, and expect that the case is now closed. > > What is he afraid of? What is in there that he does not want the public to see? **doorhinge** is ignoring that Trump already did hint about that in the devate: only the little people pay taxes.\* In other news, that shows how an incompetent Trump would be in a crisis, is that it took him _3 days_ to figure out that he lost the debate. > **[Trump Slams First Presidential Debate: ‘What A Rigged Deal’ (VIDEO)](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-slams-debate-as-rigged)** > > Donald Trump complained about every part of the first presidential debate, from his opponent to the moderator to the subsequent poll results, during a Thursday campaign appearance. "I had to put up… - I do see Trump not only as a male version of Palin, but also as a male version of Leona Hemsley. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/65 "2016-09-30T02:43:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why do YOU think he hasn’t released the returns? It’s not because he’s proud of what’s in there. > [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Because Trump is under audit by the IRS. The IRS said Trump/Trump companies were being audited. You seem to have misread the question. We are not asking you what _excuse_ Trump is using for not releasing his tax returns; we already have that answer direct from the horse’s ass. We are asking about the actual _reason_ for hiding the returns. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/66 "2016-09-30T11:02:16Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > You seem to have misread the question. We are not asking you what _excuse_ Trump is using for not releasing his tax returns; we already have that answer direct from the horse’s ass. We are asking about the actual _reason_ for hiding the returns. I’m reminded of Harry Truman, who delayed the Potsdam conference by a couple weeks so he could know about the results of the atom bonb test before it was over – and thus know how hard-line he could be in negotiations with Stalin over postwar Europe. Truman’s excuse to Stalin and to the world for the delay was “I’m stuck in Washington on business until the end of the fiscal year.” Such a lame excuse – wouldn’t surprise me if it made Stalin so suspicious that he might have even guessed the true reason for the delay. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/67 "2016-09-30T13:25:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We don’t really need to know any more. Clinton successfully goaded him into admitting he doesn’t pay taxes, and “that makes him smart”. Oh, I think there’s a lot more in there. A lot of rubles, perhaps. As doorhinge demonstrates, the Trumpists refuse to acknowledge that the “I’m being audited” thing is nonsense. Trump won’t release them because Trump’s hiding something. And I think it’s worse than not paying taxes, because 1. If Trump personally made a lot of money, he paid taxes. There is a limit as to how much you can get away with if you actually made over six hundred million dollars, as he asserts. Rich people can keep that number down but he paid SOMETHING if he made a lot of money. 2. Even if what he paid was less as a percentage than what a normal person paid, that number can be spun “Seventy million dollars I paid in tax! That’s a lot of money, I mean, a lot of money, I’m proud I paid all that money!” and if released early in the election cycle would not mean much come November. So either he didn’t actually make a lot of money, or there’s skeletons in there worse than not paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/68 "2016-09-30T13:40:05Z")
I don’t care what he obliquely admitted. I’d keep hammering him with the ‘what’s he hiding? Payments to Russia? He didn’t pay any tax? He’s poorer than he says? What?’ I’d keep worst-casing that until he had a stroke. It’s a key vulnerability and there’s no sense no poking him in the sore spot all the way through election day. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/69 "2016-09-30T14:09:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Because Trump is under audit by the IRS. The IRS said Trump/Trump companies were being audited. > > Why pay lawyers and accountants to give you advice if you’re not going to take their advice? It won’t be because somebody on the internet demands he ignore their advice. But Trump said he would release his returns if Hillary released more emails. So Trump literally said he will ignore his legal advice – just not for the sake of being open with American voters, as every other presidential candidate for half a century has done. ETA: And Nixon was actually under audit for one year of his returns – he ended up owing the IRS the modern-day equivalent of $2 million in unpaid taxes. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/70 "2016-09-30T17:34:12Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > At least when Hillary lies, she sticks to her story. (post shortened) Yes, I agree with you. The 1st debate doesn’t seem to have changed anyone’s mind. Is there any debate advantage if nothing has changed? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/71 "2016-09-30T17:37:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But Trump said he would release his returns if Hillary released more emails. (post shortened) Isn’t that the same thing as saying he won’t release his tax returns? 😃 Hillary still insists that she’s released her emails. At least the FBI keeps releasing Hillary’s emails for her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/72 "2016-09-30T17:39:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Yes, I agree with you. > > The 1st debate doesn’t seem to have changed anyone’s mind. Is there any debate advantage if nothing has changed? Based on the polls since the debate, Hillary’s lead has expanded considerably. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/73 "2016-09-30T17:54:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Yes, I agree with you. > > The 1st debate doesn’t seem to have changed anyone’s mind. Is there any debate advantage if nothing has changed? Early yet but the RCP 4-way rolling average is the highest plus Clinton it’s been since September 5th. Clinton’s share in that rolling average is the highest it’s been since August 14th. The Trump is back to talking about why it is okay to refer to women who have gained weight as Miss Piggy and to their being Latinas as being Miss Housekeeping. Responding most conservatively: the person who is behind this close to election day needs something dramatic to change. Keeping that from happening and dominating a bit of the news cycles for the next week with Trump floundering is a major debate advantage for Clinton. The increase in the national polls advantage for Clinton will increase as more come in (and for now are more reflected in states results) but at this point the impact on motivating turnout on each side is more important. Clinton played well to her supporters and has gotten them more revved; Trump’s supporters are saying things like “Well the jackass at the front of my mule train, so I’ll stick with him.” That will mean something on election day. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/74 "2016-09-30T18:35:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Early yet. (post shortened) Yes, it is early. I’m very curious to see if any numbers have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/75 "2016-09-30T18:38:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Yes, it is early. > > I’m very curious to see if any numbers have changed. Would you like an explanation of how polls work? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/76 "2016-09-30T18:50:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Yes, it is early. > > I’m very curious to see if any numbers have changed. They have, both nationally and in many swing states. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/77 "2016-09-30T19:09:03Z")
Interesting that you added a period after my “Early yet …” completely ignoring the comment on what the polling data shows so far that is how the numbers have changed so far, even though it is early yet. I may have my current quibbles with 538 but there is a reason why they have on polling-only moved from Trump’s estimate being a 45% chance to a 33% one. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/78 "2016-09-30T22:27:32Z")
In case you are still very curious to see if any numbers have changed here is [a recent 538 post](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-debate-performance-is-helping-her-in-swing-states/) about the recent numbers: > [@](#): > > … National polls conducted since Monday’s presidential debate have shown Hillary Clinton ahead of Donald Trump by an average of about 4 percentage points — a meaningful improvement from her position before the debate, when she led by just 1 or 2 points. Now, it’s becoming clearer that battleground state polls are moving toward Clinton as well. These include the first results since the debate from high-quality, live-caller telephone polls … these results are pretty much exactly what we’d expect with a Clinton lead of 3 to 5 percentage points nationally. In fact, they’re mostly toward the high end of the range, which means that her lead over Trump nationally could eventually turn out to be more like 5 points than 3 points as more data comes in. … the polls have told a pretty consistent story overall. Among the 11 swing state polls conducted since the debate, Clinton has led in all 11.1 … our hyper-aggressive now-cast has Clinton’s popular vote lead at 4.1 percentage points, as compared with 3.1 points in the polls-only model. Since the now-cast doesn’t need as much data to show a big change, the gap implies that Clinton has some further room to grow in polls-plus and polls-only if we get more polls confirming the results we’ve seen over the past couple days. … Still curious? Again, \*this \* is with it still being early. And before he did his who-knows-what fueled all night twitter meltdown explaining why a Miss Universe deserved to be the object of misogynistic and racist insults from him since she later posed for topless pictures like his wife has. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/79 "2016-09-30T22:49:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > She should prepare for the Town Hall debate with her husband, the best Town Hall debater in the history of the Presidency. It’s a weird format, they have to connect to 1 person and stay connected, while they’re connecting to a room of people, and connecting to everyone at home. People who know her say that she’s a great listener. If she can convey that in the debate it will help her. Listening does not seem to be in Trump’s skill set. That said - he is good at connecting with large crowds. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099/80 "2016-09-30T23:50:46Z")
He has to connect one on one, on an individual basis, with each questioner. He is NOT going to be “in front of a large crowd” and his large crowd schtick will not play at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-clinton-press-the-debate-advantage/767099.md?page=5)