# How Should I Feel About This "Traffic Stop" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928 "2019-09-09T13:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/21 "2019-09-09T22:43:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you have the time, I’d fight the ticket, and possibly report the officer. Report the officer? To who? The local chief of police? Who do you think set that cop’s quota? The mayor? The town council, whatever it’s called? They’re the ones driving the shakedown policy. If you get ticketed in one of these shakedown operations, you’re shit out of luck. Everyone, from the cop pulling you over to the chief of police to the mayor, _everyone_, is in on it. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/22 "2019-09-10T00:08:01Z")
This is just another douchebag cop. You are lucky that he didn’t pull you out of your car for mouthing off to him. I would fight the ticket and avoid that area. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/23 "2019-09-10T00:32:24Z")
> [@LTU2](#): > > Charger, IMO, the citation was not issued constitutionally. UNTIL the stop is completed he must afford you Due Process. Refusing to revoke the citation after you showed proper proof of insurance, negates his PC to issue it. Fight it. It is very common for an officer to be unable to void a ticket after it’s written.\* The OP can certainly fight the ticket, and depending upon how the law regarding insurance is written, he may get it dismissed - it’s possible that the law simply requires that insurance be in effect and failing to produce the card is not a separate violation. - If the officer can’t void the ticket, he can’t take a bribe to void the ticket and can’t “fix” tickets written by other officers to his friends and relatives. ---
**Author:** ![LTU2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/22d042/32.png) [@LTU2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LTU2)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/24 "2019-09-10T02:16:36Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It is very common for an officer to be unable to void a ticket after it’s written.\* The OP can certainly fight the ticket, and depending upon how the law regarding insurance is written, he may get it dismissed - it’s possible that the law simply requires that insurance be in effect and failing to produce the card is not a separate violation. > > - If the officer can’t void the ticket, he can’t take a bribe to void the ticket and can’t “fix” tickets written by other officers to his friends and relatives. Can’t void the ticket? Are you generally speaking of policy or pursuant to law? If you can unarrest a person, why can’t you uncite a person? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/25 "2019-09-10T02:51:01Z")
> [@LTU2](#): > > Can’t void the ticket? Are you generally speaking of policy or pursuant to law? > > If you can unarrest a person, why can’t you uncite a person? It’s very common for agencies to have polices that the officer cannot void the summons once it is written. Perhaps in some states it’s a law. I assume that even in those places officer can void a ticket if he/she made a clerical error in writing it out - but then it will be obvious that the next ticket was issued to the same person/vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![LTU2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/22d042/32.png) [@LTU2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LTU2)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/26 "2019-09-10T03:24:24Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It’s very common for agencies to have polices that the officer cannot void the summons once it is written. Perhaps in some states it’s a law. I assume that even in those places officer can void a ticket if he/she made a clerical error in writing it out - but then it will be obvious that the next ticket was issued to the same person/vehicle. I understand about voiding a citation once written, but my argument was, if PC existed to issue it, then facts that came into evidence on the scene that abrogated that PC, when the officer files it under the criminal or traffic rules, isn’t that perjury and violates DP? I’m not speaking of any favoritism or such to a fellow officers family, etc. If an officer has PC to arrest and does so, then before the trip downtown, PC is voided by evidence, (let’s assume arguendo this to be factually true), if the officer stiil makes the full arrest, that violates the 4th AM. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/27 "2019-09-10T03:46:14Z")
> [@LTU2](#): > > I understand about voiding a citation once written, but my argument was, if PC existed to issue it, then facts that came into evidence on the scene that abrogated that PC, when the officer files it under the criminal or traffic rules, isn’t that perjury and violates DP? When is the officer perjuring himself? When he wrote the ticket the person was unable to provide proof of insurance. Showing that proof to the officer 7 minutes later , an hour later, a day later doesn’t mean the officer was committing perjury when he signed the ticket. > [@](#): > > If an officer has PC to arrest and does so, then before the trip downtown, PC is voided by evidence, (let’s assume arguendo this to be factually true), if the officer stiil makes the full arrest, that violates the 4th AM. And if evidence comes to the officer’s attention after he’s taken downtown and awaiting arraignment, the decision is out of the officer’s hands. Sure, the officer can tell the prosecutor about the new evidence, just like the ticket-writing officer can tell the prosecutor that the driver eventually produced the insurance card. And maybe the prosecutor will dismiss that ticket before the court date ( I’ve actually seen that happen many times with summonses for disorderly conduct - in my jurisdiction it’s called “declined prosecution”). At some point, whether it’s an arrest or a ticket, the decision is out of the officer’s hands and in someone else’s. In some places, that discretion ends when the ticket is written. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/28 "2019-09-10T03:54:27Z")
Even of you beat the ticket and get it dropped, will you still have to pay bullshit court costs? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/29 "2019-09-10T04:05:42Z")
Too late to edit: The oath /affirmation that could result in perjury is on the ticket itself- there’s no additional oath when it’s sent to court. It wasn’t perjury when the officer signed it. There would be another oath if the case went to trial - which it almost certainly won’t since providing proof to the court that there was valid insurance (possibly through a hearing online or by mail) will most likely result in a dismissal ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/30 "2019-09-10T04:26:49Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > He…tells me to “get that light fixed, it is illegal to not illuminate your plate at night”… > > But when I arrive home, i…find that the plate has two bulbs and while one was out the other was very bright and the plate was clearly visible. He was giving you a folksy summation of the law, not a precise rendition. It’s a virtual certainty that the statute requires all factory license lights to be working. * * * > [@](#): > > “i leave the truck running to go look at the license plate light.” No need to leave it running. Virtually all cars and light trucks have license lights, taillights, and parking lights that come on whether or not the ignition is on. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/31 "2019-09-10T04:57:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Doesn’t surprise me in the least. Fight the ticket, these assholes are going for a shotgun/volume approach. Most of their targets are out of towners/out of staters, who will be too busy or inconvenienced to fight the ticket. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Report the officer? To who? > > The local chief of police? Who do you think set that cop’s quota? > > The mayor? The town council, whatever it’s called? They’re the ones driving the shakedown policy. > > If you get ticketed in one of these shakedown operations, you’re shit out of luck. Everyone, from the cop pulling you over to the chief of police to the mayor, _everyone_, is in on it. Yes, fight it. You should be able to win this easily. But try to make it as expensive as possible for them (so they don’t make any revenue from this). Request that the officer be required to spend part of a day testifying in court. Request a jury trial, so they have to call up a jury for this case. And drag out the case as long as possible, to use up the court time and the salaries of the judge, bailiff, court reporter, etc. And if there are any businesses in that town that you patronize, like gas stations, etc., next time you go in there, mention to the owner that you won’t be in any more – you now take a different route to avoid the tax-generator cops in the town. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/32 "2019-09-10T05:21:05Z")
I haven’t read all the responses, so this may have already been mentioned, but PHOTOGRAPH the license plate at night to prove that it’s visible (and FYI I just looked at my car, and there is only one license plate bulb, so I doubt the law says you have to have two). Also, I was stopped years ago and did not have proof of insurance in the car. I was issued a ticket, and subsequently sent proof of insurance to the court (I did not have to physically go to court) and the ticket was dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/33 "2019-09-10T11:16:48Z")
Once I write a cite I am prohibited from voiding it. But a person doesn’t always have to go to court to get it voided, some tickets can be voided by our Chief or Deputy Chief. **LTU2** is all wet on some of his assertions. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/34 "2019-09-10T19:13:14Z")
The officer doesn’t seem to know what he was talking about. He seems pretty clear that the justification for the stop was the unlit bulb. I’m not sure what he meant when he replied "Nope but now I have probable cause. Probable cause for what? To search your car? No way. To arrest you? Negative. He may have had PC to believe that you committed an infraction by having the light out but not more than that. Its been mentioned in other threads but the old “Do you know why I stopped you?” while common, is not considered best practice. Modern training is that the officer should tell you right from the start the reason for the stop. Cops are allowed to make stops for traffic violations with the hope of finding something more but the officer still has to follow the rules. For instance, in my state, the officer must have a reasonable suspicion (and articulate that in reports) that you are up to no good before asking for consent to search your car. Of course, you can always refuse. If its not too much of a hassle, go to court. Even in cases where the driver couldn’t produce the requested document, the charge is often dismissed or lowered when you show up with the document. There may still be court costs involved. Voiding tickets can be done, depending on the jurisdiction. It may require an affidavit from the officer as to why he wants to do this. Its not simply a matter of the officer saying “never mind” once the ticket is written. By the way, did you get a written warning for the light? If he didn’t document the reason for the stop somewhere, that could be an avenue to pursue. That said, he may have just reported over the radio “One ticket for insurance card., one warning for lamps.” even if he didn’t write up a formal warning. Once you start getting into the weeds on this stuff, a lawyer is highly recommended. Again, how much does it mean to you? They count on you to not pursue things in court. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/35 "2019-09-10T21:01:30Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > He was giving you a folksy summation of the law, not a precise rendition. It’s a virtual certainty that the statute requires all factory license lights to be working. Not in NY: 4. if required to display a number plate on the rear, a white light which shall illuminate the numerals on such plate in such manner as to render such numerals legible for at least fifty feet from the rear. The provisions of this subparagraph shall also apply to trailers. As long as plate is illuminated with white light there is no stipulation on all bulbs be working. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/36 "2019-09-10T22:56:30Z")
I present to you… [Mountain View, Colorado](https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/citation-nation-mountain-view-colorado/73-132604347). > [@](#): > > A 12-block town with 10 police officers made more than half its revenue from traffic tickets and court fees […] > > The state’s average is about 4 percent made from fines and fees. It’s not even out out in the boondocks. Just a 6 block by 2 block chunk of the suburban grid. Annoying as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/37 "2019-09-11T15:44:09Z")
I think you should feel angry, write an OP in the SDMB to vent that anger, and forget it, lest we end up like [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-49641063). I hope you are already feeling better. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/38 "2019-09-11T15:51:44Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I haven’t read all the responses, so this may have already been mentioned, but PHOTOGRAPH the license plate at night to prove that it’s visible (and FYI I just looked at my car, and there is only one license plate bulb, so I doubt the law says you have to have two). I doubt this would help because the cop and court could always spuriously claim that the OP’s plate bulb was out\* at the time of the ticket \*and that the OP has now simply just fixed it and is now photographing the now-fixed bulb. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/39 "2019-09-11T16:17:22Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > Not in NY: > 4. if required to display a number plate on the rear, a white light > which shall illuminate the numerals on such plate in such manner as to > render such numerals legible for at least fifty feet from the rear. The > provisions of this subparagraph shall also apply to trailers. > > As long as plate is illuminated with white light there is no stipulation on all bulbs be working. The relevant paragraph may be in a separate location. Generally, all exterior lights on a vehicle must be functional. Whether there is on license plate bulb or two, if you have multiple brake lights, all must be operative. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928/40 "2019-09-11T20:31:00Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I present to you… [Mountain View, Colorado](https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/citation-nation-mountain-view-colorado/73-132604347). > > It’s not even out out in the boondocks. Just a 6 block by 2 block chunk of the suburban grid. Annoying as fuck. Wasn’t that one of the ‘features’ of Ferguson, MO when that suddenly was in the news so much? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-i-feel-about-this-traffic-stop/839928.md?page=3)