# How should Palin address her family situation Part Deux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768 "2008-09-02T23:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/41 "2008-09-04T05:17:40Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > …If you feel that a father is incapable of caring for his own child just as well as the mother can, sorry, but you _are_ being sexist. > … Would it be sexist of me to point out that the father probably can’t produce milk out of his tits? [Just saying] ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/42 "2008-09-04T06:08:00Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Would it be sexist of me to point out that the father probably can’t produce milk out of his tits? [Just saying] Probably the mother can’t either, but they have these newfangled devices called “bottles” and “formula” that supposedly work pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/43 "2008-09-04T14:53:55Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > What a disingenuous response. Who said anything about “disqualifying”? Did anyone say “well, I’d vote for Sarah Palin except that her daughter is preggers?” or “Sarah Palin is clearly unqualified for the job because she has a pregnant daughter?”. > > And of course, most times when someone’s children become parents the children aren’t 17. > > The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think her 5 month old baby and her pregnant daughter are, prima facie, irrelevant. They are certainly not major issues, but I don’t think they should just automatically be off the table and unworthy of discussion. (The baby being more important in my mind than the teenage daughter, although the teenage daughter is of course more salacious as far as media coverage is concerned.) OK, discuss it. Tell us the pros and cons, and then tell us how the scales tip. Personally, I couldn’t care less whether she has a baby or whether her teenage daughter is pregnant. She’ll be a highly paid executive who can hire help, if needed, to take care of her children. She also has a husband to help care for their kids, and the unborn child has 3 other grandparents besides SP to help out. I see no reason that the maternal grandmother needs to be especially involved. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/44 "2008-09-04T16:20:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > She also has a husband to help care for their kids… Yeee-aaah. That’s worked out REAL well so far. He took a leave of absence from BP for a while but went back to work last summer so he could keep his [seniority.](http://www.alaska.com/adn/front/story/9245100p-9159409c.html) He’s a commercial fisherman and a rig operator on the North Slope. He’s not at home much. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/45 "2008-09-04T16:36:30Z")
Here’s the thing…I really don’t get why her “family situation” is such a big deal. She has one son about to go into the army. She has a daughter about to get married. Sure, they are young, but they have their own lives. Should a parent with two kids their age who are away at college worry about putting their career on hold in case they are needed? The remaining three kids are not that much different from the families of a lot of other Presidents and VPs. Just taking Presidents alone…the Bushes, the Clintons, and the Carters all had children who were living at home when they were elected. Kennedy had two very young children, plus one that was born and died during his time in the White House. The reason I bring up sexism is this: what exactly makes her “situation” any different from anyone’s? Everyone has a family, and things can go wrong. I don’t see why there’s anything that needs to be addressed by anyone other than the Palins themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Brunhilda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilda)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/46 "2008-09-04T17:21:26Z")
My response to folks who say that 17 is a little young to lose control of your kid, in regards to Palin’s family situation, is this: “It doesn’t matter how strict you are as a parent, or how you raised your kid. Teens often make mistakes- even the responsible ones. All it takes is 15 minutes, a broom closet, and the right time of the month.” I am a little surprised that many of these folks criticizing her have teens themselves, and aren’t thinking “there but for the grace of God go I.” ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/47 "2008-09-04T17:45:32Z")
Sarahfeena, there are three points as to why her family situation is a concern. A: She advocates abstinence only sex education and chastity till marriage. Her underage unmarried daughter is pregnant. There is some slight disconnect there, in that, if it doesn’t work for even her family, why does she think it will work for others? This is not a question about Bristol, it is a question about why she feels that imposing a moral standard her own family can’t keep on other people is a good thing. One should look to ones own house first. B: She is a parent of a special needs child. A severely handicapped one. Downs is not a easy task to deal with. It requires input and care from both parents. (My mother was a special ed teacher for many years, I served as a substitute TA repeatedly.) C: She has a husband who is often away from the family for extended periods of time. Being Veep is going to be a strain on the family… and being president will be worse. For one, her husband’s job _requires_ him to be in Alaska, while hers requires Washington DC. The odds she will be president are, at a minimum, 1/3 that John McCain will not make his 80th birthday. He will have excellent medical care _and_ has stopped smoking, and his mother is 92 and hale, but he had a two pack habit for many years, he had re-occurring malignant melanoma (highly lethal skin cancer), his father died at 71, his grandfather died at 61, and the male side is what he has to look to for longevity. He’s also still not in the best shape, thanks to torture, (My dad, a fighter pilot, was more or less fine for many years, until four years ago, when he had to have spinal surgery thanks to what he describes as ‘something to do with being in an ejection seat too many times’, these things can linger.) The presidency ages a man. Look at John Kerry versus GWB, look at GWB before and after. Hell. Look at Clinton after, and Clinton _now_. Bill looks better now than he did in his final days. If McCain wins, Sarah Palin will be president before the first term ends, I think. What will that do to her family, given her husband’s job, and her special needs child? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/48 "2008-09-04T18:02:27Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Sarahfeena, there are three points as to why her family situation is a concern. > > A: She advocates abstinence only sex education and chastity till marriage. Her underage unmarried daughter is pregnant. There is some slight disconnect there, in that, if it doesn’t work for even her family, why does she think it will work for others? No one will ever claim that any kind of sex ed will work in every case. If a person who advocates birth control education for teenagers had a teenager who became pregnant, would that be a disconnect? Or are you saying that teens who are taught about birth control never get pregnant? > [@](#): > > This is not a question about Bristol, it is a question about why she feels that imposing a moral standard her own family can’t keep on other people is a good thing. One should look to ones own house first. There’s nothing wrong with imposing moral standards, or failing to live up to them. Happens to the best of us. > [@](#): > > B: She is a parent of a special needs child. A severely handicapped one. Downs is not a easy task to deal with. It requires input and care from both parents. (My mother was a special ed teacher for many years, I served as a substitute TA repeatedly.) I see no evidence so far that the child will not get what he needs. The VP does live in a house with their familiy, after all. And I’m sure he will get the best medical care and therapy. If the input and care is given by another relative or trusted, experienced caregiver, how will that be harmful? > [@](#): > > C: She has a husband who is often away from the family for extended periods of time. Being Veep is going to be a strain on the family… and being president will be worse. For one, her husband’s job _requires_ him to be in Alaska, while hers requires Washington DC. We don’t know yet whether or not he is planning to stay at his job, but I can tell you first hand that it IS possible to have a successful marriage and family life in a situation where the spouses cannot always be together. It’s not easy, but it can be done. Probably it’s a lot easier with a lot of money and perks at your disposal, too, which my husband and I don’t have. > [@](#): > > The odds she will be president are, at a minimum, 1/3 that John McCain will not make his 80th birthday. He will have excellent medical care _and_ has stopped smoking, and his mother is 92 and hale, but he had a two pack habit for many years, he had re-occurring malignant melanoma (highly lethal skin cancer), his father died at 71, his grandfather died at 61, and the male side is what he has to look to for longevity. He’s also still not in the best shape, thanks to torture, (My dad, a fighter pilot, was more or less fine for many years, until four years ago, when he had to have spinal surgery thanks to what he describes as ‘something to do with being in an ejection seat too many times’, these things can linger.) > > The presidency ages a man. Look at John Kerry versus GWB, look at GWB before and after. Hell. Look at Clinton after, and Clinton _now_. Bill looks better now than he did in his final days. > > If McCain wins, Sarah Palin will be president before the first term ends, I think. What will that do to her family, given her husband’s job, and her special needs child? Even if it is true that he won’t survive his Presidency, which I have my doubts about, lets’s say she’s President for 2 years. I’m sure the family will be able to weather that storm. But even besides that, the point is that it’s _her_ concern. I don’t see any pressing need for the public to get an explanation for how she is going to handle all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Brunhilda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilda)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/49 "2008-09-04T19:33:30Z")
I don’t believe we would be questioning her taking the job if she were a guy, in regards to the infant with Down syndrome. We would just say “poor dude” and let him continue. We may even say- good thing he’s got a high powered career, so that he can afford additional medical care, visits to specialists and respite care. Why is this so different for a woman? Is it just because we are the ones who are expected to be the nurturers 100% of the time? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/50 "2008-09-04T19:38:05Z")
> [@howye](#): > > I would ask if it reflects negatively on her decision making skills, and the question and answer are not gender based. She had a serious medical condition that could affect her and her child’s health, yet she chose to make a journey no Doctor would approve of and at the end of which was arguably medical care that was of poorer quality than she could get where she went. Her doctor did approve it. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/51 "2008-09-04T20:12:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Her doctor did approve it. Well, yes and no. [http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html](http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html) > [@](#): > > Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, “which is not active labor,” the doctor said. > > “Things were already settling down when she talked to me,” Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said. > > “I don’t think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back,” Baldwin-Johnson said. > > So the Palins flew on Alaska Airlines from Dallas to Anchorage, stopping in Seattle and checking with the doctor along the way. So someone could use weasel words to truthfully say that the did not get a doctor’s approval for her flight from Texas, but it’s pretty clear the doctor would have approved it, and the doctor did approve the flight from Seattle to Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/52 "2008-09-04T20:55:49Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You’re right about all of this, of course. But, if I’m remembering correctly, Mr. Palin works a job where he works a week on and a week off. Is he planning to quit his job to be a full time, stay at home dad for his special needs son? Apparently so. Here’s what she said in [their People Magazine interview](http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685,00.html): > [@](#): > > As a new mom, how are you going to juggle all this? > SARAH: I am thankful to be married to a man who loves being a dad as much as I love being a mom, so he is my strength. And practically speaking, we have a great network of help with lots of grandparents and aunties and uncles all around us. We have a lot of help. > > So will your husband be on leave now indefinitely to be Mr. Mom? > SARAH: I would say so, yes. The same interview refers to her having a breast pump, so I don’t think the fact that the dude can’t produce “milk out of his tits” is a factor either. 😉 Yay for fathers who actually like being dads. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/53 "2008-09-04T21:02:38Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Apparently so. Here’s what she said in [their People Magazine interview](http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685,00.html): > > The same interview refers to her having a breast pump, so I don’t think the fact that the dude can’t produce “milk out of his tits” is a factor either. 😉 > > Yay for fathers who actually like being dads. Yes, good for him. I think they both have to realize that it’s probably pretty close to a necessity for him to give up working for a while. Regarding the breast pump…I have heard that a lot of Downs babies have trouble nursing, so they have to be bottle fed, anyway. Good for her for taking the trouble to pump! Hope she can keep it up for a while. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/54 "2008-09-04T21:23:44Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Yay for fathers who actually like being dads. Absolutely! OTOH, he’s not just the stay-at-home dad of \*four \*kids (and one on the way, perhaps), but of two kids, one pregnant teen and one special needs infant. That, to me, puts this far enough out of the realm of normal family needs that I think the point is still valid. Lots of special needs families experience marriage ending stress with one full time parent and one 40 hour work week parent. I’m a stay at home mom of two - one a teen, one a preschooler, and I can barely hold the place together some weeks. I can’t imagine more than doubling my work load \*and \*having my partner home even less than he is currently. I just couldn’t do it and be a \*good \*stay at home parent. Maybe Mr. Palin’s a better parent than I, though. It is, of course, he and Mrs. Palin’s decision at the end of the day - just not the one I would make. ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Brunhilda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilda)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/55 "2008-09-04T22:24:31Z")
I think that they’ll be able to get enough good qualified competent help, that it will be ok. I don’t think the kids will be any more of a distraction for Palin than they were for JFK. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/56 "2008-09-05T00:14:57Z")
> [@Brunhilda](#): > > I don’t believe we would be questioning her taking the job if she were a guy, in regards to the infant with Down syndrome. We would just say “poor dude” and let him continue. We may even say- good thing he’s got a high powered career, so that he can afford additional medical care, visits to specialists and respite care. Why is this so different for a woman? Is it just because we are the ones who are expected to be the nurturers 100% of the time? I certainly would be questioning a man in this situation. I know that for a fact, because I used to supervise someone in a situation different only in degree. His wife was a SAHM, and they had three or four children , two of whom were autistic. He was ineffective at work, in large part because he was routinely late and frequently absent or had to leave early due to emergencies. He could have returned to his prior position, or requested an assignment with more flexibility, or a transfer to an assignment that was less than a two hour one-way commute. Any of those options would have improved his performance _and_ made his life easier. He rejected them all. Apparently, remaining in this position was more important to him than anything else- certainly more important than having a job where he could perform well and also give his wife the assistance she clearly needed. Either that, or he believed he was performing just fine at work, and his wife didn’t need any help. Whichever it was, the situation caused me and his peers to question his judgment. And that’s my problem with Palin - not that I think she’ll be distracted from the job , but her judgment in accepting the nomination. Accepting the nomination was her decision to make - there’s no doubt about that. But voters are entitled to be concerned with her judgment, and I think this was a bad decision. There is so much going on in her family right now that there is just no way that she can accurately predict what any of her children will need a year from now. The infant with Down’s syndrome or the pregnant teenager would be enough for the other kids to adjust to. They’ve got both. Now they have a mother on the campaign trail , too. She either doesn’t believe that it’s a bad idea to add additional sources of stress , or she wants to run badly enough to do it anyway. And it wouldn’t be any different if their father were running. ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Brunhilda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilda)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768/57 "2008-09-05T03:48:00Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I certainly would be questioning a man in this situation. I know that for a fact, because I used to supervise someone in a situation different only in degree. His wife was a SAHM, and they had three or four children , two of whom were autistic. He was ineffective at work, in large part because he was routinely late and frequently absent or had to leave early due to emergencies. He could have returned to his prior position, or requested an assignment with more flexibility, or a transfer to an assignment that was less than a two hour one-way commute. Any of those options would have improved his performance _and_ made his life easier. He rejected them all. Apparently, remaining in this position was more important to him than anything else- certainly more important than having a job where he could perform well and also give his wife the assistance she clearly needed. Either that, or he believed he was performing just fine at work, and his wife didn’t need any help. Whichever it was, the situation caused me and his peers to question his judgment. And that’s my problem with Palin - not that I think she’ll be distracted from the job , but her judgment in accepting the nomination. > > Accepting the nomination was her decision to make - there’s no doubt about that. But voters are entitled to be concerned with her judgment, and I think this was a bad decision. There is so much going on in her family right now that there is just no way that she can accurately predict what any of her children will need a year from now. The infant with Down’s syndrome or the pregnant teenager would be enough for the other kids to adjust to. They’ve got both. Now they have a mother on the campaign trail , too. She either doesn’t believe that it’s a bad idea to add additional sources of stress , or she wants to run badly enough to do it anyway. And it wouldn’t be any different if their father were running. Fair enough. I just wanted to put that out there. It seems like guys get a pass on doing things despite a situation at home. Ignorance fought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-palin-address-her-family-situation-part-deux/461768.md?page=2)