# How should the Confederacy be viewed by modern Americans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400 "2019-03-01T20:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/62 "2019-03-04T21:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The Confederacy seceded for an evil cause, and despite the Union’s eventual victory, we’ve never fully dealt with the fallout of slavery or racism. This failure continues to haunt us to this day. This is the leading vote getter at the moment, in a landslide. The first part of this I can understand. It’s easy today to look back and say the Confederacy seceded for an evil cause, thanks to enlightenment. But at the time, even Lincoln the “Great Emancipator” didn’t call slaveowners evil. And the second half, that the fallout continues to haunt us to this day, well that’s on us. Not the Confederacy of the 1860s. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/63 "2019-03-04T21:51:56Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > This is the leading vote getter at the moment, in a landslide. The first part of this I can understand. It’s easy today to look back and say the Confederacy seceded for an evil cause, thanks to enlightenment. But at the time, even Lincoln the “Great Emancipator” didn’t call slaveowners evil. And the second half, that the fallout continues to haunt us to this day, well that’s on us. Not the Confederacy of the 1860s. And we are also the society that confines to look at the Confederacy and say “but it wasn’t REALLY about slavery and even Lincoln didn’t want to free the slaves and the Confederates weren’t so bad” and pretty soon you’re marching in the streets with a white hood or a tiki torch. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/64 "2019-03-04T22:01:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Disagree, strongly. It is necessary to vilify it, otherwise (as we see actually happening) it becomes a cover for hanging on to the villainy. > > There are no Nazi reenactors in Germany. One guess as to which side is more popular in Civil War reenactment circles, by 2:1 [.](https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/waughj/classes/civilwar/public/syllabi/memorypdfs/bates.pdf)… Fair point. I will point out that there aren’t really any Allied reenactors in the US, either, but I know a LOT of guys - perfectly fine chaps - who enjoy playing the German side in Axis and Allies, mostly because of the innovations that they brought to military technology and tactics, not because they’re rabid anti-Semites or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/65 "2019-03-05T04:33:42Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Actually there are some; not a lot because of possible legal issues with the badges and the like but they do exist in fair numbers. Really? Cite? I know of many \*Wehrmacht \*reenactors (have personally met a couple through the SCA), but the only ones I’ve heard of who do actual Nazis are…actual Nazis IRL too. > [@](#): > > And many re-enactors are strongly anti-Nazi in their philosophy just as many CSA re-enactors are strongly “abolitionist”. …and many are strongly RW (although I’ve heard it’s a lot worse in Eastern Europe on that score), just like many CSA reeanctors are racists. “Many” is a useless word in this case. And if you have a cite to contradict Bates’ assessment of proportions, by all means, bring it. Granted, my personal experience with post-medieval reenactment is strictly through others’ anecdotes, so I’m happy to hear more, but what you’re saying doesn’t gel with what I’ve been tol or read, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/66 "2019-03-05T04:41:41Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Fair point. I will point out that there aren’t really any Allied reenactors in the US, either You sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/67 "2019-03-05T15:28:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Really? Cite? > I know of many \*Wehrmacht \*reenactors (have personally met a couple through the SCA), but the only ones I’ve heard of who do actual Nazis are…actual Nazis IRL too. > …and many are strongly RW (although I’ve heard it’s a lot worse in Eastern Europe on that score), just like many CSA reeanctors are racists. “Many” is a useless word in this case. “I’m not a Nazi I just like their uniforms” is practically a meme at this point, because they’re almost **always** Nazis. Playing the German side in a board or video game isn’t necessarily the same thing, because some people see it as a mechanical abstraction – just pieces on a board, and also in the cases of story-based experiences, because media about horrendous people can still tell powerful stories without glorifying that side. But Nazi cosplayers? Hit a Nazi cosplayer, find a Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/68 "2019-03-05T15:29:56Z")
How should the Confederacy be viewed by modern Americans? They were traitors. And unlike the founders of the United States, it wasn’t even for a righteous reason like fair representation in the government. No, they committed treason for the deplorable reason of preserving slavery. All other of their actions and their consequences need to be viewed in light of that fact. The Confederate States seceded for the wrong reasons, but they were a product of their times. The men fighting for the Confederacy were just as honorable as the Union soldiers. True, but it’s a distraction. Honor in the service of treason to preserve evil is not worthy of being noted. The Confederacy was formed to defend the rights of states against Federal overreach, an issue that is still important today. The Confederates were brave men and women, who deserve our respect. Obfuscation. They were defending the “right” to own another person. Bravery in the service of treason to preserve evil is not worthy of being noted, and certainly does not our respect. It was a tragic situation, with fault on all sides. We should remember both the good and the bad done by both the Union and the Confederacy, and learn what we can from them both. Obfuscation. Faults committed while fighting against evil are lamentable, but at least the goal is worthy of praise. Faults committed while fighting in the service of evil compound that evil. The lesson to be learned is that humans are capable of great evil and we must ever be vigilant against going down that path again. The Confederate States seceded for a truly evil cause. Slavery is shameful to our nation’s history, and fighting the Civil War to free the slaves was one of the greatest things our nation ever did. Absolutely true. But still avoids calling out their treason. The Confederacy seceded for an evil cause, and despite the Union’s eventual victory, we’ve never fully dealt with the fallout of slavery or racism. This failure continues to haunt us to this day. Absolutely true and avoids mentioning their treason, as well. But this is more about the aftereffects of the Confederacy and the premature ending of the Reconstruction, rather than the Confederacy itself. The Confederacy was right to secede, and the Union’s victory was a dark day in our nation’s history. False, and perpetuates the treason in the cause of evil of the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/69 "2019-03-05T15:46:13Z")
Not too sure if 4 and 5 are exclusive choices, but I chose 5 as it’s the most relevant choice to today. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/70 "2019-03-05T15:55:10Z")
And, really, this should have been a public poll. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/71 "2019-03-05T20:08:25Z")
I didn’t vote because 1, 4, and 5 are all true. 2 is true only if you consider it Federal overreach for the government to say, “15 slave states is enough - you can keep your slaves in those states, but there will be no new slave states.” That was Lincoln’s platform, remember: not the eradication of slavery, just an end to its further geographical extension. 3 is some serious bothsidesism. There may have been wrong on both sides, but the North was fighting for the right cause, and the South for an immoral one. The good done by Confederates pales next to their cause. And 6? Gimme a break. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/72 "2019-03-09T01:13:46Z")
> [@RingsOfPylon](#): > > I like this one. Good option. > > If we’re applying today’s standards and morality to the 19th century, why not also criticize the ham-handed way that the Union handled the issue? In what way did the Union deal with the issue is a “ham-handed” way? > [@](#): > > Today we would acknowledge that this idea may bring economic hardship to our fellow citizens and we would offer financial incentives. We’ll give you $x billion (for that era) to facilitate your transition away from slavery. > > Bribe enough key people and the few noisy extremists would have been a historical footnote. With incentives, you could have recruited a lot of the leaders and rabble-rousers who, in turn, would recruit most of the public sentiment in support. > > Make them a financial offer they couldn’t refuse, along with expertise from both sides to help formulate transitions plans and deadlines, and appoint specific people to be responsible for the success of the process. > > We do that all of the time now. And, people are more cooperative and compliant when there are rewards, and less cooperative and compliant when punishment is involved. > > It never needed to have become a war. It could have been completely avoided if 21st century sensibilities were applied. There’s plenty of blame to go around when looking back from the 21st century. You are relying far too much on economistic rationalist thinking, not considering the historical dimension-ie the strength of non-material factors in upholding the system of slavery nor the potential for fundamentally irreconcilable conflicts in which the only outcome is one side to muscle out the other. This is true even today or else problems like North Korea’s nuclear program would have been solved already. The entire ruling class of the South was invested in the system of slavery, with many looking forward to its continued expansion in the future. Even if you could somehow get support to raise the revenue for compensation, the planter class would have been unlikely to accept given that they were not only considering their current wealth derived from slavery but future profits from the intensification and expansion of the institution of human bondage. Not to mention the ideological belief in the need for slavery to uphold racial hierarchy… ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400/73 "2019-03-12T20:49:40Z")
Too few seem to realize that the purpose of the Confederacy was not merely treason in the interest of preserving slavery, but treason in the interest of spreading it throughout the hemisphere, and if necessary, destroying the planet’s best hope at achieving liberal democracy in order to accomplish this feat. Fewer still seem to realize that somewhere along the path to remembering one’s history is the obligation to be ashamed of the parts that deserve opprobrium, rather than sanitizing or celebrating the sins of our ancestors just because they are our ancestors, or worse, because we share their rotted morality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-confederacy-be-viewed-by-modern-americans/830400.md?page=3)