# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/241 "2021-07-22T19:54:52Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > Regardless of whether you agree with that or not, though, what do you see is the main benefit of allowing posters to insult other posters, and do you think there are any negative consequences to allowing it? Ive answered this question like 10 times now. The rules are far too restrictive when it comes to pointing out things like patterns of behavior, bad faith arguments, ignoring cites that they don’t like, etc. So long as we aren’t allowed to point those things out right in the thread where they happen, a Pit is needed. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/242 "2021-07-22T19:56:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > 😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂 > > That’s a good one. Yeah, it’s hilarious how more and more posters are leaving as the board becomes increasingly dull and conformist. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/243 "2021-07-22T19:59:25Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > you’d think the “Trolls R Us” thread should be for pitting people for trolling, specifically - is it not? Whoops, missed that part – thought we were discussing the Pit as a whole, and missed that you were referring to the statistics from that specific thread. Consider the comment withdrawn. > [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > Regardless of whether you agree with that or not, though, what do you see is the main benefit of allowing posters to insult other posters, and do you think there are any negative consequences to allowing it? What I, and some others, have been arguing for isn’t the right to post random insults such as you’re describing, but the right to accuse of trolling, racism, other bigotry, sealioning, lying, etc. It may be easier for the mods not to have to try to keep straight which terms are “insults” of that sort and which are just miscellaneous yelling that means nothing other than ‘I’m mad at you.’ That I think we’d need mods’ opinions on (and they might vary.) ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/244 "2021-07-22T20:00:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Ive answered this question like 10 times now. The rules are far too restrictive when it comes to pointing out things like patterns of behavior, bad faith arguments, ignoring cites that they don’t like, etc. So long as we aren’t allowed to point those things out right in the thread where they happen, a Pit is needed. I don’t see why pointing out things like patterns of behaviour, bad faith arguments, or ignoring of cites requires the ability to insult other posters. If you were allowed to post in ATMB about these things, would that satisfy your needs? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/245 "2021-07-22T20:00:42Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > I don’t see why pointing out things like patterns of behaviour, bad faith arguments, or ignoring of cites requires the ability to insult other posters. Because doing that is considered insulting in itself. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/246 "2021-07-22T20:02:34Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > I would like to hear from some of the posters in that thread (eg. @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness and @Babale) what, exactly, you see is the positive result from such pit threads? I have very few posts in the Troll thread, and like other threads, it’s a chance for me to talk with folks about what’s on my mind. To the extent that I talk shit about other folks in the Pit, it’s because I think people are acting like assholes in one way or another, and it’s a chance for me to vent. The one about damuri and demontree has served very well in that purpose; I think my posts there speak for themselves in a way that I can’t in this forum. I’m not convinced that the Pit serves much other purpose than venting, and I’m not convinced it needs to. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/247 "2021-07-22T20:03:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have very few posts in the Troll thread, I don’t have particularly many either, funnily enough ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/248 "2021-07-22T20:04:31Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > They left due to the biased moderation. As I quoted earlier, this sort of meritless complaint has been made for over a decade. What you see as “biased moderation” I see as “calling people out on some shitty behaviors,” and what you see as a sad loss I see as beneficial similar to throwing moldy leftovers out of my fridge. Sure, there’s less food that way, but that’s not food I wanted anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/249 "2021-07-22T20:07:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As I quoted earlier, this sort of meritless complaint has been made for over a decade. What you see as “biased moderation” I see as “calling people out on some shitty behaviors,” and what you see as a sad loss I see as beneficial similar to throwing moldy leftovers out of my fridge. Sure, there’s less food that way, but that’s not food I wanted anyway. Comparing people to mouldy leftovers. But of course that isn’t shitty behaviour, just like calling someone mentally disabled is totally not cyberbullying. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/250 "2021-07-22T20:13:57Z")
Okay, sure. Describe it then as kicking the racist drunk guy out of the club. Makes the club a better place, even if he keeps shouting about how oppressed he is. But if you’re having more fun with the poor victimized conservatives narrative, the moldy leftovers analogy might be what you’re looking for, so you choose. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/251 "2021-07-22T20:14:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Comparing people to mouldy leftovers. But of course that isn’t shitty behaviour, just like calling someone mentally disabled is totally not cyberbullying. And the way Monstro/YWTF talked to our Trans posters was totally fine, because they deserved it for daring to be trans or something? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/252 "2021-07-22T20:18:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But if you’re having more fun with the poor victimized conservatives narrative, the moldy leftovers analogy might be what you’re looking for, so you choose. That’s exactly what it comes down to, so I don’t think there’s any point to continuing to engage with this thread. So long as we have a Pit, we have a place where we can call out that kind of behavior. Get rid of the Pit, and the only people who’ll stick around are the ones who enjoy their newfound ability to sealion unchallenged across the Dope. Not much else to say beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/253 "2021-07-22T20:25:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Okay, sure. Describe it then as kicking the racist drunk guy out of the club. Makes the club a better place, even if he keeps shouting about how oppressed he is. A pretty ironic analogy in the circumstances… Kicking out and shunning a friend of 20 years because they dared to question one of the doctrines of your church is a much closer comparison. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/254 "2021-07-22T20:25:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Get rid of the Pit, and the only people who’ll stick around are the ones who enjoy their newfound ability to sealion unchallenged across the Dope. Not much else to say beyond that. We still have mods. As long as people report the posts, then they won’t be able to cause unrestrained chaos. If people don’t report the posts, then the posts don’t really rise to the level that bothers most people. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/255 "2021-07-22T20:30:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have very few posts in the Troll thread, and like other threads, it’s a chance for me to talk with folks about what’s on my mind. To the extent that I talk shit about other folks in the Pit, it’s because I think people are acting like assholes in one way or another, and it’s a chance for me to vent. The one about damuri and demontree has served very well in that purpose; I think my posts there speak for themselves in a way that I can’t in this forum. > > I’m not convinced that the Pit serves much other purpose than venting, and I’m not convinced it needs to. Thanks, I appreciate that input. I think we’ll disagree as to whether venting is a good thing, but I think most people here seem to want a place for it so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/256 "2021-07-22T20:33:59Z")
Well, It was not because I was trolling or a bigot or a transphobe, it was because you disagreed with me on what I consider a minor issue. However, please PM me with a succinct reason of what you disagreed with and why. I won’t reply in the Pit of course. > [@Babale](#): > > So long as we aren’t allowed to point those things out right in the thread where they happen, a Pit is needed. And what good do they do there? You can certainly point out bad faith arguments in the GD. Just debate the post, not the poster. Why is that so hard? Why do you need to add insults? I see most of the pittings for disagreement are caused by the inability of the PitER to civilly argue their side of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/257 "2021-07-22T20:38:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, please PM me with a succinct reason of what you disagreed with and why. I’m pretty sure the reason **Lefty** pitted you wasn’t due to a simple disagreement. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Why do you need to add insults? Are you under the impression that insults are _required_ in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/258 "2021-07-22T21:03:43Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > What I, and some others, have been arguing for isn’t the right to post random insults such as you’re describing, but the right to accuse of trolling, racism, other bigotry, sealioning, lying, etc. Or agreeing with anything Trump said, or disagreeing with the left on any number of ‘hot button’ issues… If someone comes here and says, “I think Trump was right about X.” the chance of that person being pitted over it is high. Even if they add the usual disclaimers about not liking Trump, not believing everything he says, etc. Mentioning the Hunter Biden laptop gets you pitted. Disagreeing with the BLM riots will get you pitted as a racist. As a reminder, I’m talking about the beliefs of half the country, not a small fringe of right-wing kooks. The people doing it may claim that they are doing it for high minded principles. In truth, they are just protecting the left’s orthodoxy and will brook no dissent on the issues they truly care about. All arguments to the contrary in their minds have been ‘debunked’ or are based in sexism, racism, transphobia, etc. and therefore worth pitting. One stat we don’t have - the number of moderate or right-wing people who come here, look around a bit and say, “Oh hell no.” and leave. The overall tenor of this board has a chilling effect on people who aren’t part of the prevailing group. For the record, I have seriously considered leaving this place many times, and have taken extended breaks from the board just to regain perspective and stop feeling depressed. I generally come back not because I enjoy it, but because I’m stubborn and refuse to let obnoxious people figuratively run me out of town. I’m willing to bet the flameouts we’ve seen from conservatives here come from that - sticking around while it becomes increasingly unpleasant to stay, then finally snapping when they just can’t take it any more. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/259 "2021-07-22T22:01:38Z")
No, but posters seem to think so. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > One stat we don’t have - the number of moderate or right-wing people who come here, look around a bit and say, “Oh hell no.” and leave. The overall tenor of this board has a chilling effect on people who aren’t part of the prevailing group. > > For the record, I have seriously considered leaving this place many times, and have taken extended breaks from the board just to regain perspective and stop feeling depressed. I generally come back not because I enjoy it, but because I’m stubborn and refuse to let obnoxious people figuratively run me out of town. > > I’m willing to bet the flameouts we’ve seen from conservatives here come from that - sticking around while it becomes increasingly unpleasant to stay, then finally snapping when they just can’t take it any more. At least some of them, anyway. But that is exactly what the Pit Habitués want. That is their goal. To reduce the SDMB to a bunch of Bobbleheads and posts in stuff like MPSIMS , etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/260 "2021-07-22T22:30:01Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > One side could post any kind of misinformation, while the other would be warned and eventually banned if they posted. One side does certainly seem to post a lot of misinformation without consequence, true. > [@DemonTree](#): > > because they dared to question one of the doctrines of your church is a much closer comparison. This again. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > What I, and some others, have been arguing for isn’t the right to post random insults such as you’re describing, but the right to accuse of trolling, racism, other bigotry, sealioning, lying, etc. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Or agreeing with anything Trump said, or disagreeing with the left on any number of ‘hot button’ issues… Yes, we are aware that quite a lot of the people who engage in “trolling, racism, other bigotry, sealioning, lying, etc.” do indeed turn right around and make the audacious claim that they’re merely being persecuted for not agreeing with some imaginary Board Dogma. Because if one is already engaged in those activities, why not continue to do them in order to avoid any accountability for them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=14)