# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/261 "2021-07-22T23:10:11Z")
I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life… I attacked Biden from the LEFT. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/262 "2021-07-22T23:11:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, It was not because I was trolling or a bigot or a transphobe, it was because you disagreed with me on what I consider a minor issue. > > However, please PM me with a succinct reason of what you disagreed with and why. Thanks for the offer, but if you didn’t get it from the Pit thread, I hardly think that’d be a productive use of my time. I’ve told you there what I needed to tell you. What you do with it is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/263 "2021-07-22T23:15:10Z")
As is well known, I try never to participate in Pit threads. But this is the common refrain- “I can’t tell you in open honest adult discussion, so I have to call you names.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/264 "2021-07-22T23:20:17Z")
I like how you put that in quotation marks, as if that is what I said. It reinforces my decision. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/265 "2021-07-22T23:21:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > One side does certainly seem to post a lot of misinformation without consequence, true. Yes, the side that hasn’t bothered to do any research and uncritically believes what they have been told. Meanwhile anyone who has is forced to tapdance over landmines in an effort to debunk the misinformation. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The people doing it may claim that they are doing it for high minded principles. In truth, they are just protecting the left’s orthodoxy and will brook no dissent on the issues they truly care about. All arguments to the contrary in their minds have been ‘debunked’ or are based in sexism, racism, transphobia, etc. and therefore worth pitting. Exactly. Has anyone pitted the WSJ yet for saying the Hunter Biden laptop is real? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/266 "2021-07-22T23:25:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I like how you put that in quotation marks, as if that is what I said. It reinforces my decision. Which one was you? Calling someone mentally disabled, a troll, or a hateful racist fucktard? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/267 "2021-07-22T23:33:33Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Which one was you? Calling someone mentally disabled, a troll, or a hateful racist fucktard? I think this, and DrDeth’s posts, illustrate why the Pit is necessary: even with it, people who refuse to use it feel the need to clutter up other fora with highly personal posts like this one. Without the Pit I’m sure such posts would be even more common. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/268 "2021-07-22T23:37:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Yes, the side that hasn’t bothered to do any research and uncritically believes what they have been told. Meanwhile anyone who has is forced to tapdance over landmines in an effort to debunk the misinformation. Hard to take that seriously when the last effort from you was a cite from the bottom of the barrel coming from the extreme right wing media. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/269 "2021-07-22T23:48:11Z")
This thread has turned into another argument with the “get rid of the pit” crowd, so I just want to reinforce the results of the poll in case anyone reading along so deep into the thread is swayed into thinking that that is a popular opinion. Only 9% want the pit abolished, and only 14% want attacks on other posters banned. The most popular change only received 27% of the vote. The majority of people want the pit to remain as it is. Granted, a slim majority, but still a majority. It’s also a majority that I suspect would grow if you removed the option “disable discourse showing links to the Pit”. I would actually favor this option, but I didn’t vote for it as I know that it is not technically feasible at this time. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/270 "2021-07-22T23:51:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I think this, and DrDeth’s posts, illustrate why the Pit is necessary: even with it, people who refuse to use it feel the need to clutter up other fora with highly personal posts like this one. Without the Pit I’m sure such posts would be even more common. It’s not necessary to say such things for any of the stated purposes except venting… venting at the expense of other people, and of the board. I wish the eager pitters could experience what it’s like to be on the wrong side of the mob. Then they might have some empathy for once. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/271 "2021-07-22T23:53:04Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I wish the eager pitters could experience what it’s like to be on the wrong side of the mob. Then they might have some empathy for once. I already experienced that when I defended climate science 15 years ago, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/272 "2021-07-23T00:03:26Z")
Maybe we should make a forum called The Cross where our more martyrdom focused posters can compare their tales of being persecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/273 "2021-07-23T00:10:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I wish the eager pitters could experience what it’s like to be on the wrong side of the mob. Then they might have some empathy for once. This, I think, is the fundamental disagreement. Of course I could experience that: I would just need to post in the ways that engender a pitting. I think that generally means posting in an asshole manner; you don’t. But I could experience that if I wanted to. I don’t post that way because I don’t want to post in what I consider to be an asshole manner, though. Your lecturing me about empathy is–well, again, one of those subjects best left to the pit. And your feeling the need to make things personal here is one more piece of evidence that the Pit is a useful forum, and I encourage you to take further conversation about my emotional health or moral probity there. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/274 "2021-07-23T00:21:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t think anyone has ever gone around ranting about global warming in unrelated threads. Then you really haven’t been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/275 "2021-07-23T00:31:54Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > Ultimately, I accept that the majority of the people on this board like the Pit and want to keep it. I would agree with this. So what are we doing in this thread? It feels like we’re spinning our wheels over something that most users don’t want to change. > [@DemonTree](#): > > They left due to the biased moderation. Oooh boy. I think we have taken very different messages from what happened with them. > [@DrDeth](#): > > But that is exactly what the Pit Habitués want. That is their goal. To reduce the SDMB to a bunch of Bobbleheads and posts in stuff like MPSIMS , etc. No. It’s not. We could make the opposite argument though. Some people would like to be able to post whatever they like, and not get called on it. Their argument could be questioned, if you word it just right. The statement could be refuted, with care. However, the poster in this model, would never get called out on their larger narrative because the Board does not allow any way to do that without the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/276 "2021-07-23T00:51:18Z")
We need to keep the Pit if only for the _Fantastic_ thread titles it generates. _Catholic Bishops can…_ _Rand Paul is…_ Poetry! ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/277 "2021-07-23T01:16:28Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > No. It’s not. We could make the opposite argument though. Some people would like to be able to post whatever they like, and not get called on it. Their argument could be questioned, if you word it just right. The statement could be refuted, with care. However, the poster in this model, would never get called out on their larger narrative because the Board does not allow any way to do that without the Pit. There are really two aspects to calling someone out in the Pit 1. Highlighting their problematic behavior 2. Describing their behavior with a profanity-laden personal attack The utility to the board of the first part doesn’t require the second part. I certainly agree that arguing with some posters can be like arguing with a rock, but that doesn’t mean they should be subjected to unrestrained, mean-spirited personal insults. The intent of the insults seem more like a personal vendetta to drive the person away rather than highlight problematic behavior. If the behavior really is so bad that it can only be expressed with degrading insults about the person, let the mods deal with it and ban the problematic poster. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/278 "2021-07-23T01:24:37Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > The utility to the board of the first part doesn’t require the second part. I certainly agree that arguing with some posters can be like arguing with a rock, but that doesn’t mean they should be subjected to unrestrained, mean-spirited personal insults. The intent of the insults seem more like a personal vendetta to drive the person away rather than highlight problematic behavior. Again, though, there’s the “vent about someone being an asshole” aspect. If someone is sealioning, or treating me with withering condescension that comes from a place of ignorance, or otherwise absolutely getting on my last nerve, it’s helpful for me to have a place where I can express my frustration safely, and then return to the other forum and not respond to them in kind. If the board were a lot less tolerant of dishonesty and passive-aggressive nonsense, then a lot of the folks who currently get Pitted would instead get banned, and the vent wouldn’t be so helpful. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/279 "2021-07-23T01:42:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, though, there’s the “vent about someone being an asshole” aspect. I admit I’m not really well versed in the Pit since I don’t really follow all the Pit threads. I don’t know your posting style there, but plenty of posters in the Pit are as hurtful as possible in their insults. Even if you are doing a kind of “healthy rant”, that’s not what everyone does. Like this example “Bricker is a Pile of Shit Sculpted into Human Shape”. In my opinion, that is an abhorrent insult that should not be allowed on the board in any category. There’s nothing that Bricker could have done to warrant that kind of insult. If Bricker is really that disruptive, report him and the mods will ban him. If that was said in any other category or on practically any other message board, the poster themselves would be banned. I can’t comprehend how we agree that kind of speech is hurtful and not appropriate anywhere else in our lives but it’s a-okay in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/280 "2021-07-23T02:47:48Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I can’t comprehend how we agree that kind of speech is hurtful and not appropriate anywhere else in our lives but it’s a-okay in the Pit After 20 years, I still find it appalling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=15)