# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![opiewan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/opiewan/32/3566_2.png) [@opiewan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opiewan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/342 "2021-07-26T21:30:37Z")
Long time non-posting lurker who de-lurked and joined after the jump to Discourse throwing in my two cents. I voted to keep the pit the same. The SDMB has long been a place to argue/debate/discuss topics that sometimes are controversial. The pit has long acted as a sort of release valve where posters who, while in the heat of a passionate debate, need a place to blow off steam and say what they’re really thinking, whether it’s to call a poster disingenuous, a troll, a liar, or a general all-around asshole, without that toxicity bleeding into the other fora. IMO, if pit nonsense is bleeding out into other forums, the answer is to report the post, not to get rid of the pit. Lastly, I don’t really have much reason personally to post in the pit as I haven’t been around long enough as a poster to have beef with other posters, and as a poster I try to remain civil and not a jerk so as not to get pitted myself, but I sure enjoy a good pit thread and I’d hate to see them go away. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/343 "2021-07-26T21:30:48Z")
Exactly, Who knows what they would have chosen? > [@Oredigger77](#): > > On the assumption that voters who voted for no changes are necessary didn’t also vote for changes. That is a big assumption. Look it is right there- **“No changes are necessary” =53%**. Sure others did not vote for a specific change, or voted for other choices. But 53% of the voters said “No changes are necessary”. The total % add up to around 120%. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/344 "2021-07-26T21:36:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It is also an inherently low value poll as too many questions. > > It should be a series of polls and not just 1. At very least 2 polls. > First a simple one. Basically Yes or No followed by one asking what changes should be addressed. > > 115 voters is a fairly significant number of active posters. I don’t think there’s any real way to make a message board poll good. I can’t even see them, let alone vote in them. Discussion is good. Polls not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/345 "2021-07-26T21:49:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly, Who knows what they would have chosen? > > > [@Oredigger77](#): > > > > On the assumption that voters who voted for no changes are necessary didn’t also vote for changes. > > That is a big assumption. > > Look it is right there- **“No changes are necessary” =53%**. Sure others did not vote for a specific change, or voted for other choices. But 53% of the voters said “No changes are necessary”. > > The total % add up to around 120%. 53% of 157 votes is 83. So 83 people voted for no changes in the Pit. That’s 72% of all the voters. So you can either say “53% of all votes are for keeping the Pit the same” or “72% of all voters voted for keeping the Pit the same”. Both statements are true. The second is probably the more useful one. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/346 "2021-07-26T21:53:26Z")
Is it a useful poll? Probably not. But it’s always helpful to at least get the math right. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/347 "2021-07-26T21:57:06Z")
I voted not to change anything to do with the Pit, not because I’ve ever pitted anyone or been in the habit of furiously excoriating pittees, but because it’s a somewhat entertaining board feature and there’d be folks who’d just _bust_ if they didn’t have a venom outlet. Good ways _not_ to get pitted in my view are avoiding getting into knock-down drag-out exchanges on “controversial” subjects (make your point in one or a few posts, then depart), and not employing disingenuous tactics (for instance, JAQing off). I found one poster annoying because he repeatedly made unsupportable, ridiculous claims about how people to his left on the political spectrum commit damaging acts of unspeakable hypocrisy. This resulted in factual debunkings, not always super-polite, after which as likely as not, he’d magnanimously concede that he was wrong - only to start over with a new thread on the same flawed premise.\* > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s hard to escape the conclusion that there are a number of people here who have made it their mission to make life on this board miserable for the people they have chosen to go after. Pit threads have a habit of petering out fairly quickly when their subject does not obligingly feed them. It’s akin to wasps buzzing angrily around for awhile when their nest is disturbed, then settling down. \*yep, the aforementioned Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/348 "2021-07-26T21:57:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So you can either say “53% of all votes are for keeping the Pit the same” or “72% of all voters voted for keeping the Pit the same”. Both statements are true. The second is probably the more useful one. I understand the math. But again, this is making an assumption. Maybe some voters voted for "keeping the pit the same’ AND “Disable Discourse showing links to the Pit (if this is technically feasible)” since that does not actually change the Pit. And "I_nsults to broad groups of people should not be allowed (by ethnicity, nationality, political orientation, etc.)_ they may have clicked that also, as they agree that for example- black people should not be insulted as a group, which again, could be considered not a change, depending on how you look at it. Or “other” because they want the Pit changed, but none of the choices make them happy. So, we don’t know what each voted voted for. We do know that the choice **“No changes are necessary” =53%**. Don’t make assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/349 "2021-07-26T22:02:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, we don’t know what each voted voted for. We do know that the choice **“No changes are necessary” =53%**. Don’t make assumptions. No assumptions are necessary to see that this is the overwhelming option, supported by 72% of voters, while any of the changes to the Pit have tiny, marginal support by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/350 "2021-07-26T22:03:45Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I don’t think we can really make this assumption, though. I could easily imagine someone voting for multiple options, like “I’m OK with no changes or this small change, but not these larger changes,” for example. (I almost did that myself.) But that would be inaccurate then. If you vote that you want no changes and this change, you voted incorrectly. That doesn’t mean _nobody_ voted that way. It’s theoretically possible on a poll like this to pick every answer. So it’s just a badly-constructed poll, I’m sorry to say. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/351 "2021-07-26T22:12:07Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > But that would be inaccurate then. If you vote that you want no changes and this change, you voted incorrectly. It would be incorrect if you phrase it the way you did, but not the way I did. “Want” is not the same as “OK with.” There is nothing inherently incorrect about being OK with no changes or small changes, but not big changes. So it depends on how the respondent interprets the poll. You are correct that it is not a well designed poll (no offense intended to the OP). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/352 "2021-07-26T22:18:51Z")
Based upon your assumptions, and one of these is that people voted that way you think they did. They may have wanted several of the smaller changes also. Your assumptions aren’t unreasonable I give you that, but you are still making an assumption. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/353 "2021-07-26T22:30:13Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > you may get an overabundance of people who think the Pit should be changed while people who don’t think it should be changed disregard the thread. > > At least one has no opinion whatsoever and hasn’t voted. 😉 At least two. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/355 "2021-07-26T22:35:39Z")
There were only 117 voters. So I’m not sure what you’ve done, but you are certainly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/356 "2021-07-26T22:36:59Z")
Count me as one that voted for no change, but also voted for changes that would be acceptable if my arm was twisted. ETA: And I would note that the three most-voted options also all don’t call for much in the way of “changes”; just disabling links (not possible) and creating MORE pit threads rather than using omnibus threads for individual posters. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/357 "2021-07-26T22:50:19Z")
Add up all the people who voted for some change. 22%, + 17%,+13%, + 10%, +9%= 71%. Clearly some people who voted for no change also voted for some change. > [@Kron](#): > > Count me as one that voted for no change, but also voted for changes that would be acceptable if my arm was twisted. > > ETA: And I would note that the three most-voted options also all don’t call for much in the way of “changes”; just disabling links (not possible) and creating MORE pit threads rather than using omnibus threads for individual posters. Yes. The poll has multiple options and you can vote for both “no change” and “some change”. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/358 "2021-07-26T22:55:27Z")
So, to play along, add up all those votes that result in NO functional difference in the Pit itself: 55 + 22 + 17 = 94% (No changes necessary + split up omnibus threads + linking disabled) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/359 "2021-07-26T23:03:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Add up all the people who voted for some change. > > 22%, + 17%,+13%, + 10%, +9%= 71%. > > Clearly some people who voted for no change also voted for some change. So … You are counting votes, rather than voters, and if someone voted for three options you are counting them three times? It looks to me like 53% of voters prefer no change. Some of those people might also be happy with some of the minor (or impossible) changes, but they voted for no change, as well. I mean, the real problem with the poll is that “who answered” is doubtless biased, probably towards “those who feel strongly”. But of those who bothered to vote (which doesn’t include me) a clear majority want the pit to remain. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/360 "2021-07-26T23:25:03Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > You are correct that it is not a well designed poll (no offense intended to the OP). Yeah that’s the only way to conclude it. If you can say “no changes are **necessary** ”, but at the same time “I would **like** these additional changes”, then even if the answers aren’t in conflict they’re also not equivalent. Regardless it’s hard to get anything meaningful out of this poll. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/361 "2021-07-26T23:34:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It looks to me like 53% of voters prefer no change. Exactly, my point all along. But others here have claimed it is 72%, not 53%. Counting one way they have a point. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/362 "2021-07-26T23:44:35Z")
So you claimed 71% 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=19)