# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/363 "2021-07-26T23:45:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yeah that’s the only way to conclude it. > > If you can say “no changes are **necessary** ”, but at the same time “I would **like** these additional changes”, then even if the answers aren’t in conflict they’re also not equivalent. Regardless it’s hard to get anything meaningful out of this poll. ☹ Yeah obviously I could have designed the poll to make the result a little more straightforward to interpret, but I don’t know why you think there nothing meaningful to be gained from the poll - to me it’s pretty obvious. For example, we can see that almost nobody who responded supports abolishing the Pit, so I’m in a significant minority of poll respondents. Likewise, of the people who think changes are necessary, most only support relatively minor changes. The whole purpose of this was to see what peoples’ support were for each individual option, and I think this poll tells that story. YMMV. I agree that this poll isn’t likely to be representative of the whole board population, and also says absolutely nothing about potential future members, so I don’t know if this will have any impact on mod decisions, but on the face of it it seems like its basically a confirmation of the “null hypothesis”. I’m disappointed that the majority of the poll respondents think this way but I am not too surprised. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/364 "2021-07-27T01:58:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly, my point all along. But others here have claimed it is 72%, not 53%. Counting one way they have a point. So, you’re conceding on behalf of the rebellion? We can close this thread? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/365 "2021-07-27T04:29:17Z")
The math is weird, the only real math you can count on is what the post says. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/366 "2021-07-27T04:29:54Z")
WTF? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/367 "2021-07-27T12:44:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Exactly, my point all along. But others here have claimed it is 72%, not 53%. Counting one way they have a point. > > So, you’re conceding on behalf of the rebellion? We can close this thread? > [@DrDeth](#): > > WTF? 🤨 pretty sure he means that your posts > [@DrDeth](#): > > Add up all the people who voted for some change. > > 22%, + 17%,+13%, + 10%, +9%= 71%. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The math is weird, the only real math you can count on is what the post says. are endorsing this one: > [@Kron](#): > > So, to play along, add up all those votes that result in NO functional difference in the Pit itself: > > 55 + 22 + 17 = 94% > > (No changes necessary + split up omnibus threads + linking disabled) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/368 "2021-07-27T15:14:36Z")
It’s clear that enough people want the pit as it is that it’s not going anywhere. It’s probably the most popular feature on the board. I find that sad, but there you go. I won’t bring it up again. Tilting at windmills, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/369 "2021-07-27T15:20:16Z")
I like the change that the Pit titles are a more generic “I pit Soandso”. Even if I don’t agree with permitting personal insults, having the insults be segregated to inside the thread makes them easier to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/370 "2021-07-27T15:25:18Z")
I’m still a proponent of “let’s test out some changes to the Pit,” but that idea did not catch fire as I had hoped 🙂 And it’s not a priority for me, so c’est la vie! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/371 "2021-07-27T15:42:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s clear that enough people want the pit as it is that it’s not going anywhere. It’s probably the most popular feature on the board. By no means. Today I see IMHO as the most popular, followed closely by Cafe Society, then GQ, MPSIMS, and Quarantine zone all having the highest “per week” stats. The Pit and ATMB are last. Which may explain the numbers of responses here. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/372 "2021-07-27T15:51:31Z")
I think you’re looking at the new threads stats. But the views and replies are harder to determine. I was looking earlier and can’t figure out a way to get these numbers. I will try again later. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/373 "2021-07-27T16:05:14Z")
Well, yes, but that is the only measure I can see. If you have better, that would be great. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/374 "2021-07-27T16:13:51Z")
This poll should strictly be “for entertainment purposes only”. It is not scientific and any conclusions drawn from poll results are garbage for many reasons, such as: - Not everyone reads ATMB - The people who respond to the poll may not be those who make up the active posters - The poll may be answered by pranksters with ulterior motives - The results may be biased since certain kinds of people may be more willing to respond to polls As an example, think of all the fun the K-Pop fans had trolling Trump by signing up for rally tickets. The huge response made the Trump team incorrectly think that they had huge support and their event would be overflowing, but in reality was very poorly attended. Polls on a message board are like that. Just use them for fun rather than actually setting policy. The discussion is valuable, but the poll is garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/375 "2021-07-27T16:14:57Z")
I do have one suggestion. Not about changes to the pit, but the way in which it is used. Specifically, mods should _never_ move a thread to the pit unless the OP asks for it. If we are supposed to ignore the pit if we don’t like it, how can we possibly do that if a mod decides, “oh, this thread you started will get flamey, so I’ll just move it to the pit.” I have had that happen to me. I specifically don’t start threads in the Pit because I don’t want to put up with the insults. If you move my own thread to the pit you force me to abandon it while other people are free to attack me there. A thread that seems pit-bound should simply be closed, and the OP invited to start a new one in the pit if they want to continue. The worst recent example of this was when Heffalump and Roo started a thread specifically to ask where controversial subjects could be discussed without the flames, and a mod decided the thread would get heated and moved it to the Pit - where people were free to flame her. If we are supposed to ignore the Pit if we don’t like it, the mods should help make that possible. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/376 "2021-07-27T16:18:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Specifically, mods should _never_ move a thread to the pit unless the OP asks for it. That sounds reasonable to me. A boilerplate instruction along the lines of: > [@](#): > > MOD NOTE: This thread is not suited to this forum and is closed. If you would like to reopen it, you may post the OP in the Pit. Do not post this OP or a similar one in any other forum. would have much the same effect as just moving the thread to the Pit, except that people who want to avoid the Pit would have an easier time doing so. FWIW, I tend to think that threads should only be moved when it’s overwhelmingly obvious that it should be moved. I’ve had mods move my threads from forums where I’d get the discussion I wanted to forums where they died, and it mildly pissed me off. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/377 "2021-07-27T16:43:08Z")
Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/378 "2021-07-27T17:14:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A thread that seems pit-bound should simply be closed, and the OP invited to start a new one in the pit if they want to continue. Agreed in general, if say a GD thread is judged too controversial. However - > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The worst recent example of this was when Heffalump and Roo started a thread specifically to ask where controversial subjects could be discussed without the flames, and a mod decided the thread would get heated and moved it to the Pit - where people were free to flame her. This is not an example of the situation you described at all. Roo’s OP was a rant, a rant against board culture and the Pit and other members. It was thinly disguised as a question, but that kind of thinly disguised disengenousness is the #1 worst thing about this board. The moderators didn’t buy that crap, and they moved the rant to the rant forum. A great decision, and I’d oppose any rule about moving threads that eliminates a mod’s ability to move a rant to where rants go. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/379 "2021-07-27T17:16:18Z")
**Babale** sums it up very well. More than one Mod involved in it also. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/380 "2021-07-27T17:33:22Z")
Do you think closing it would have been worse than moving it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/381 "2021-07-27T17:35:43Z")
I agree with this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/382 "2021-07-27T17:50:55Z")
I’m not really talking about whether that particular OP was pit-worthy or not. The point is that an inappropriate OP or a thread that goes off the rails should simply be closed, and not just moved to the pit. No one should be forced into the pit just to continue a discussion. And people who start flamey OPs or derail threads with insults are actually rewarded by having those threads moved to the pit where they can continue the behaviour. If bad behaviour just got threads closed, they’d get more peer pressure to behave to avoid wasting everyone’s time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=20)