# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/423 "2021-07-27T22:06:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Splitting threads is somewhat fussy and time consuming, and you have to get it right the first time, otherwise all the posts end up in helter skelter order. > > I’ve done it, but it’s not something i want to commit to doing routinely Ah. That’s a good argument against. I was thinking only of the difficulty of deciding which posts belonged in which thread; which would of course be additional work on its own. If on top of that the process of accomplishing the split is tricky, that of course makes it much worse. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/424 "2021-07-27T22:16:38Z")
Why can’t the mods just tell the posters to knock it off with the unsuitable posts and Warn them if they don’t? That at least gives a chance for other posters who do want to discuss the subject calmly. Too often threads are shut down because of one or two people’s bad behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/425 "2021-07-27T22:21:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > People love to bully and to be a anonymous bully is double the fun. If you say so. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Why can’t the mods just tell the posters to knock it off with the unsuitable posts and Warn them if they don’t? That at least gives a chance for other posters who do want to discuss the subject calmly. Too often threads are shut down because of one or two people’s bad behaviour. And when the required higher moderation standards flag the same people who are getting Pitted now, will they be back here in ATMB complaining about biased moderation? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/426 "2021-07-27T22:27:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > But back to my main point, anything that can be reasonably assumed to cause actual harm to anyone in this community needs to be restricted. > > This is sadly ironic. The Pit can be reasonably assumed to cause actual harm to members of this community, yet the majority are in favour of keeping it. > > The cruelty is the point. I don’t know that it’d rise to actual harm. Personally, if some jackhole’s giving me grief, I’m not going to think about it at all while I’m watching TV with my family or Xboxing after hours. Maybe a quick Oh, that sumbitch!, but that’s about it. But if someone is mocking me because my mom got dementia or because my pet died or because I have a mental illness or because I was the victim of a crime, that’s different. That’s going to hurt for real. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/427 "2021-07-27T22:29:00Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > If only I had the tiniest reason to think you were talking about anything other than your pet topics. > > People can claim standardised testing only measures SES without expecting to be challenged on this board, or more generally attribute children resembling their parents to upbringing, without anyone pointing out genes are a massive confounding factor. They can claim the lab leak theory or Hunter Biden’s laptop are debunked without getting any push back. You can claim IQ tests don’t measure anything significant, but no one would say the same about implicit association tests, although there is vastly less evidence supporting the latter. > > I have no idea if you consider these to be my ‘pet topics’, but it’s no different to a conservative saying I must be talking about my pet topics of global warming and Covid vaccines. I’m here to fight ignorance, naturally I talk about topics where ignorance is particularly rife. This post seems to be mostly off-topic for this thread. I suggest that if you want to discuss these issues you find some other place to talk about them. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/428 "2021-07-27T22:30:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And when the required higher moderation standards flag the same people who are getting Pitted now, will they be back here in ATMB complaining about biased moderation? Yes, if the people who behave equally badly without getting pitted escape moderation. Moderation is at least supposed to be fair, whereas several people have admitted that pitting is about enforcing a certain ideology on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/429 "2021-07-27T22:30:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > several people have admitted that pitting is about enforcing a certain ideology on the board. Are those several people the ones being pitted? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/430 "2021-07-27T22:31:02Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > But if someone is mocking me because my mom got dementia or because my pet died or because I have a mental illness or because I was the victim of a crime, that’s different. That’s going to hurt for real. Agreed, low blows based on real life trauma are too far and should be moderated even in the Pit (and, to be fair to Miller, I think he’s generally done a good job with that) ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/431 "2021-07-27T22:32:26Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > (and, to be fair to Miller, I think he’s generally done a good job with that) Agreed. It just pisses me off that some people–not many, I don’t think, but some–would do that to somebody else. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/432 "2021-07-27T22:32:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > This post seems to be mostly off-topic for this thread. I suggest that if you want to discuss these issues you find some other place to talk about them. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I don’t want to dicuss them here, they were merely examples and I won’t bring them up again. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/433 "2021-07-27T23:08:13Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I don’t know that it’d rise to actual harm. Personally, if some jackhole’s giving me grief, I’m not going to think about it at all while I’m watching TV with my family or Xboxing after hours. Maybe a quick Oh, that sumbitch!, but that’s about it. > > But if someone is mocking me because my mom got dementia or because my pet died or because I have a mental illness or because I was the victim of a crime, that’s different. That’s going to hurt for real. If you say hurtful things you must expect to hurt people. That’s the whole point of the Pit. You may be able to shrug it off, but that doesn’t mean everyone is able to. Or they may be able to take a certain amount of abuse, but everybody has a breaking point. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/434 "2021-07-27T23:12:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > This post seems to be mostly off-topic for this thread. I suggest that if you want to discuss these issues you find some other place to talk about them. > > Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I don’t want to dicuss them here, they were merely examples and I won’t bring them up again. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/435 "2021-07-27T23:14:43Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > I don’t know that it’d rise to actual harm. Personally, if some jackhole’s giving me grief, I’m not going to think about it at all while I’m watching TV with my family or Xboxing after hours. Maybe a quick Oh, that sumbitch!, but that’s about it. > > > > But if someone is mocking me because my mom got dementia or because my pet died or because I have a mental illness or because I was the victim of a crime, that’s different. That’s going to hurt for real. > > If you say hurtful things you must expect to hurt people. That’s the whole point of the Pit. You may be able to shrug it off, but that doesn’t mean everyone is able to. Or they may be able to take a certain amount of abuse, but everybody has a breaking point. The rains I’ve seen for keeping the pit (and allowing insults towards other posters) are mostly about being able to point to a pattern of behavior, not to hurt the person being pitted. I’m not saying that it isn’t hurtful to be called a bigot, but i don’t think the hurt towards that person is the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/436 "2021-07-27T23:23:55Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You may be able to shrug it off, but that doesn’t mean everyone is able to. Or they may be able to take a certain amount of abuse, but everybody has a breaking point. That is true. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/437 "2021-07-27T23:33:06Z")
I found 12 threads active in the last month, and of those only 3 OPs were pointing out a pattern of behaviour. It is much more common to Pit someone because you find their opinion or the way it is expressed objectionable (I found some of those opinions objectionable too). At least one person in this thread admitted they wanted to keep the Pit so they could shout at posters who made them angry. That is about wanting to hurt another person. Regardless, repeatedly insulting people is likely to hurt them, so I still think it’s pretty damn ironic for anyone to claim that not hurting people is something the board aims for. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/438 "2021-07-27T23:35:20Z")
You may be talking about me here. If so, and I hope you’re sitting down, this is not an accurate summary of what I have said. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/439 "2021-07-28T00:22:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > People love to bully and to be a anonymous bully is double the fun. Well you do have a Pit thread pitting another poster, so I guess you would be the one to know of such things. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/440 "2021-07-28T00:25:38Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It wasn’t an accident, but it was a mistake. @Heffalump_and_Roo posted a rant that was quite nasty towards a lot of posters. She wrapped that rant around a question. She said she really wanted to ask the question, and felt the rant was necessary background. Which, as i mentioned elsewhere, i thought was ironic as the question was about where to find discussions of a sort she felt wouldn’t be clear enough in this particular case. fwiw, I didn’t consider my post to be a rant at all. In this thread, people are being called pro-Pit and anti-Pit. I was trying to identify the people who might want to find a place to post about controversial topics that they felt couldn’t be discussed here. I’ve seen a lot of posts saying that in these threads, or how they read to me anyway. I wasn’t trying to be “quite nasty” to anyone. I can’t parse your last sentence, so maybe that clarifies something. I don’t know what “where to find discussions of a sort she felt wouldn’t be clear enough in this particular case”.means. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/441 "2021-07-28T00:41:00Z")
The part of your post that was reported, and that the mods thought was ranty, was, you said, necessary to describe why you were looking for another place to post. Many posters seem to feel that they like to post in the pit so that they can make their points clearly. I’m sorry for describing you as pro or anti-pit, or for describing other posters as such. That’s probably an inappropriate simplification on my part. I’ve barely spent any time in the pit, and I’m a little surprised that there’s so much rancor about it (on both sides). But probably my ignorance is showing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/442 "2021-07-28T01:28:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I found 12 threads active in the last month, and of those only 3 OPs were pointing out a pattern of behaviour. I found 14 threads in the Pit that were about specific posters and that were active in the last month. I didn’t read anywhere near all the posts in all of them, but at least 9 of them had multiple posts discussing patterns of behavior, though not all of them were clearly doing so in the first post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=23)