# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/463 "2021-08-04T17:56:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In any case, such a link is more or less a insult. Because of the auto-link, it is. In fact that is why Ed and the mods took the steps to at least change Pit thread titles. I also wish we could turn off the auto-link for the Pit. I like the auto-link otherwise. On vB it was mostly a courtesy to let someone know they were being pitted. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/464 "2021-08-04T18:43:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is it at all courteous to announce that you’re going to mock someone and call them vile names? I’d want to know; so I can decide a) whether they have a point and b) whether to come in and defend myself. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/465 "2021-08-04T19:21:26Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Umm, is it more courteous to do it behind their back? Heh. Depends on the person. I’ve seen a few people say that they refuse to post in the Pit. For those people, it’s not courteous to let them know that something is happening that they won’t be participating in. Those people also don’t have the option to not see the links that are on the posts they post. They don’t have to click them just as the people posting them have the option not to create them. [I’m not endorsing this rule suggestion, just noting the other side.] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/466 "2021-08-05T09:28:08Z")
Again, not a fan of the autolink for the reasons that others have cited. There are certainly times when including a link to a Pit thread in order to prevent “stronger opinions” from derailing a thread in GD (for example) is a sensible course of action, but it ought to be optional, not automatic. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/467 "2021-08-05T11:14:55Z")
But, it’s baked into the software, and it’s not optional. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/468 "2021-08-05T11:15:40Z")
Yes, I know. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/469 "2021-08-13T17:55:38Z")
My new thread was shut down, and maybe he has a point, as this thread is still open (I honestly thought it was closed) There is a group of members here that claim to be supportive of a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, where sexism, racism, (but not ageism) transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and all sorts of things be banned. And who can be against that? We _all_ want a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, don’t we? But that same group loudly supports a forum where it is Ok to call some poster a cocksucking cunt bitch, where internet bullying not only goes on, but it actively encouraged. That is a dichotomy, and hypocritical to boot. Either we want a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB OR we want a SDMB where bullying and personal attacks are Ok. You can’t have both. A board that allows and encourages bullying and personal attacks is NOT a kinder, gentler, more welcoming board. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/470 "2021-08-13T17:57:10Z")
_sigh_ We’ve gone over this several times. You don’t like the Pit. So stay out of it. It’s not going anywhere, no matter how much you complain about it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/471 "2021-08-13T18:01:14Z")
This sums it up perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/472 "2021-08-13T18:02:00Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WDM_ZohMCGk/maxresdefault.jpg "Paul Simon - One-Trick Pony (Official Audio)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDM_ZohMCGk) And, sadly, that horse is very dead. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/473 "2021-08-13T18:02:21Z")
Editing this to avoid modifying anything within the quote box. > [@DrDeth](#): > > There is a group of members here that claim to be supportive of a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, where sexism, racism, (but not ageism) transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and all sorts of things be banned. And who can be against that? We _all_ want a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, don’t we? But that same group loudly supports a forum where it is Ok to call some poster a cocksucking cunt bitch I am not really on either side of the pit debate, but I think you are mis-stating the position of many of the pro-pit posters. I think what they want is more: But that same group loudly supports a forum where it is Ok to call some poster a ~~cocksucking cunt bitch~~ _rascist transphobic piece of shit_ And I think that shows how the two can be reconciled – they want the ability to draw attention to a pattern of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/474 "2021-08-13T18:03:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My new thread was shut down, _SNIP_ > To life, to life, l’chaim. > L’chaim, l’chaim, to life. > Life has a way of confusing us, > Blessing and bruising us. > Drink, l’chaim, to life! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/475 "2021-08-13T18:08:10Z")
No, posters fought long and hard against Ed’s old rule to not use the word “cunt”. > [@Superdude](#): > > We’ve gone over this several times. You don’t like the Pit. So stay out of it. It’s not going anywhere, no matter how much you complain about it. So, no discussing anything one you think is done, eh? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/476 "2021-08-13T18:11:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, posters fought long and hard against Ed’s old rule to not use the word “cunt”. {…} Yup! We just wanted to say cunt and fuck . . . it had nothing to do with Ed deciding that the real problem with the Pit was saying cunt and fuck and not the way certain posters decided the rules allowed them to bring ~~a gun~~ tactical nukes to a knife fight. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/477 "2021-08-13T18:27:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, posters fought long and hard against Ed’s old rule to not use the word “cunt”. Not really. Outside of the initial drama when the rule was instituted, I don’t recall all that many complaints about it. It wasn’t a popular rule, but it wasn’t generating multiple concurrent ATMB threads, or constantly being brought up in unrelated discussions. When we finally dropped it, I don’t think there had been any active discussion about the rule in ATMB for a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/478 "2021-08-13T18:37:48Z")
It’s more like, “you can be an asshole without being a bigot, but you can’t be a bigot without being an asshole.” THAT is the point of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/479 "2021-08-13T18:41:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > {…} It wasn’t a popular rule {…} As I recall it; _Ed decided the Pit was too hostile._ _Ed decided that the source of this hostility was the word ‘cunt’ and various forms of ‘fuck’._ _Ed decided to ban those words._ _Ed decided that the actual content of attacks on people was not a problem, arguments to the contrary weren’t even entertained._ Are we seeing a pattern there? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/480 "2021-08-13T18:52:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is a group of members here that claim to be supportive of a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, where sexism, racism, (but not ageism) transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and all sorts of things be banned. And who can be against that? We _all_ want a kinder, gentler, more welcoming SDMB, don’t we? But that same group loudly supports a forum where it is Ok to call some poster a cocksucking cunt bitch, where internet bullying not only goes on, but it actively encouraged. I don’t think any of that is accurate. Not allowing bigotry isn’t being kinder or gentler, it’s just being decent by not being a shit-stained asshole. Generally decent people can disagree, can think that other generally decent people are flaming fuckblossoms. It’s only bullying if there is a power imbalance involved. ETA: and if prohibitions on ageism isn’t a thing here, it oughtta be. I haven’t seen it much here, myself. Probably because this board skews older. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/481 "2021-08-13T19:45:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think what they want is more: > But that same group loudly supports a forum where it is Ok to call some poster a ~~cocksucking cunt bitch~~ _rascist transphobic piece of shit_ Sure, if that is all the personal attacks and bullying are about- calling out _rascist or transphobic_ poster, that wouldn’t be so bad. But it isn’t and you know it. They pit supposed trolls, _all conservative posters_, people who have odd Covid opinions, etc. And most often- people who the Pitter just plain disagrees with, but the Pitter can’t handle normal discourse and debate so has to resort to name calling. So, although sometimes it _is_ for bigotry, and I can’t blame them for that, that is not that common. Ok, I will go along with that- no more personal pittings of Posters unless it is for racism, transphobia, and etc. I am not 100% happy with that, but it is hard to defend those behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/482 "2021-08-13T19:46:32Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > ETA: and if prohibitions on ageism isn’t a thing here, it oughtta be. I haven’t seen it much here, myself. Probably because this board skews older. I once saw a mild Mod note about ageism! But it is common, and not reported or modded enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=25)