# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/687 "2021-08-20T20:21:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But I don’t think it addresses the “pile on” issue. I don’t think that the pile-on issue can be addressed in an open forum. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/688 "2021-08-20T20:36:16Z")
Perhaps the Pit can be made less threatening for tender sorts through creative tweaking of the software, or to make sure that they are fully aware of what they’ll be getting into. There could be a portal with (dimly) flashing lights, warning signs and scary faces/fonts to alert visitors to the fact that they will be entering a Diminished Civility Zone and that there is still time to turn back. For the unwary who proceed and incur psychic trauma, hit a button and special moderators will be in contact to console you and provide counseling. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/689 "2021-08-20T20:38:24Z")
We could try this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/s62msrPjSVY/maxresdefault.jpg "Willy Wonka - Boat Scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62msrPjSVY) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/690 "2021-08-21T00:33:20Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Seems like a good compromise between those who like pitting threads and those that don’t. Like. Glad you agree. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I thought about slow mode, but I’m afraid it would compound the “piling on” effect. Someone pits a poster with an unpopular take. The pittee replies. And is then locked out for some time while twelve other posters complain about them You seem to be assuming that the Pittee can only respond to one person at a time. The problem with pile-ons is not the amount of people in them. It’s that those people (usually the same ones) post repeatedly very quickly… You can see this by going to any Pitting of a poster and looking at the bottom of the OP. It will give a listing of the avatars with the most posts. Looking at one example of a long-running thread, there are 24 people with 15 posts or more. The highest poster had 87 posts. Another example had 16 people with over 15 posts and the highest of those had 68 posts. It’s easy to respond to 12 posts in a day/night. It’s not as easy when those same 12 people are posting dozens of posts a day. The Pittee could be watching those 12 people posting and be drafting their response in one post in the editor, then post their aggregate response once or twice a day. > [@TroutMan](#): > > the (nonexistent) problem. The nonexistent problem that has already engendered 683 posts in this thread and has gone on for over a month and has multiple spin-off threads about the topic that have been closed. Huh. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I usually see slow mode measured in minutes, not hours. Not sure how this is relevant. I’ve been watching the hours mode play out in other Discourse forums. It works great. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But I don’t think it addresses the “pile on” issue. It addresses the issue by allowing fewer posts. Let’s say it was a mod action being questioned (instead of a Pitting), and there were multiple people mad about the mod action. If each person could only put in a complaint once a day, I think it would be easier for someone to answer those complaints instead of trying to respond to a few people responding repeatedly. Right now, this is handled in ATMB by responding to the core of the issue, then closing the thread. That could work for Pit threads too if people want to say that a Pit thread can only have a very narrowly defined core issue and is closed once the Pittee has answered it. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Perhaps the Pit can be made less threatening for tender sorts through creative tweaking of the software, or to make sure that they are fully aware of what they’ll be getting into. By the time someone is Pit on this forum, they’re not a tender sort. If they were, they probably would have left the forum a long time before that. The issue isn’t protecting people’s feelings. The issue is the Pittee getting lost in a sea of noise. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > We could try this: That youtube clip on Willy Wonka is really ambiguous. It’s about some people’s perception that things are moving too fast. In my interpretation, "stopping the boat: would be to get rid of the Pit. It’s been made obvious that that won’t happen. I’m suggesting the slow mode is lieu of that solution. Perhaps you can elaborate on what your interpretation of that clip means. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/691 "2021-08-21T00:50:09Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > That youtube clip on Willy Wonka is really ambiguous. It’s about some people’s perception that things are moving too fast. In my interpretation, "stopping the boat: would be to get rid of the Pit. It’s been made obvious that that won’t happen. I’m suggesting the slow mode is lieu of that solution. Perhaps you can elaborate on what your interpretation of that clip means. Really? That wordy of a reply to a joke? Did you really think that was suggestion? I mean it fit … > [@Jackmannii](#): > > There could be a portal with (dimly) flashing lights, warning signs and scary faces/fonts to alert visitors to the fact that they will be entering a Diminished Civility Zone and that there is still time to turn back. Please tell me you’re pulling my leg? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/692 "2021-08-21T01:34:32Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Not sure how this is relevant. I’ve been watching the hours mode play out in other Discourse forums. It works great. Because if the timeout is set too high, slow mode only breeds frustration from all sides. I wouldn’t say that it works great, only that it can be a useful tool. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/693 "2021-08-21T04:46:19Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > The nonexistent problem that has already engendered 683 posts in this thread and has gone on for over a month and has multiple spin-off threads about the topic that have been closed. Huh. A small number of posters repeating the same tired arguments over and over might be indicative of a problem, but probably not the one you’re thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/694 "2021-08-21T05:17:30Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/695 "2021-08-21T11:34:05Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > The nonexistent problem that has already engendered 683 posts in this thread and has gone on for over a month and has multiple spin-off threads about the topic that have been closed. Huh. Obsession. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/696 "2021-08-21T12:54:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > A small number of posters repeating the same tired arguments over and over might be indicative of a problem, but probably not the one you’re thinking of. So do you think all of us who object to the personal insults in the Pit are just objecting for the personal entertainment of participating in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/697 "2021-08-21T13:05:20Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Because if the timeout is set too high, slow mode only breeds frustration from all sides. I wouldn’t say that it works great, only that it can be a useful tool. In this case, the frustration will be about the inability to rapid-fire insult someone. If people can handle the frustration of ATMB threads being closed, they can probably handle the frustration of only insulting one certain person twice a day. > [@TroutMan](#): > > A small number of posters repeating the same tired arguments over and over might be indicative of a problem, but probably not the one you’re thinking of. Here’s a partial list of people who want the Pit abolished or changed in some way. I’ll add filmore and Walter\_Bishop to the list since they both just discussed potentially changing the Pit. > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Along with [gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/75), [ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/70) and [Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/66) in this thread, who haven’t been Pit and want the Pit eliminated or changed, there are several more in the other threads. > > From just a cursory glance at the other threads, there’s also [kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-membership-declining-and-whats-the-best-way-to-add-younger-members/944208/426), [codinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-membership-declining-and-whats-the-best-way-to-add-younger-members/944208/484), mod [RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-membership-declining-and-whats-the-best-way-to-add-younger-members/944208/242). and [GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-bbq-pit-boon-or-bane/944413/96) that I don’t think have been Pit and want the Pit to be eliminated or changed. That’s at least 9 people who have not been Pit and want the Pit to change. What is the problem you’re alluding to with these people and what do you want to be done about it? As to the same people having the same tired arguments, here’s the list of people who have the most posts in the thread. Of the 14 people who have posted more than 15 times in the thread (arbitrary number looking at the OP listing), at least 9 of them are arguing that the Pit remain the same, by my count. Babale tops the chart with 74 posts. > **Summary** > > Babale 74 > DrDeth 57 > Demon Tree 46 > Greyson Carlisle 44 > Crow Many Clouds 35 > MrDibble 31 > Left Hand of Dorkness 29 > puzzlegal 29 > Gyrate 26 > Sam\_Stone 21 > Filmore 20 > kayaker 20 > Skywatcher 18 > thorny locust 16 ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/698 "2021-08-21T13:13:14Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Because if the timeout is set too high, slow mode only breeds frustration from all sides. I wouldn’t say that it works great, only that it can be a useful tool. > > In this case, the frustration will be about the inability to rapid-fire insult someone. Maybe for some. For whoever’s getting slammed, that’s hours and hours that they have to let any lies, omissions, and disinformation sit there unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/699 "2021-08-21T13:15:48Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Babale 74 > DrDeth 57 > Demon Tree 46 > Greyson Carlisle 44 > Crow Many Clouds 35 Whoo hoo! Top five! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/700 "2021-08-21T13:20:35Z")
I’m totally not posting this just to catch up to DrDeth. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/701 "2021-08-21T13:30:44Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Maybe for some. For whoever’s getting slammed, that’s hours and hours that they have to let any lies, omissions, and disinformation sit there unchallenged.. Having been on the bottom of more pile-ons than I can count (not on the Dope), with ugly lies, omissions and disinformation galore about me, let me assure you that having that dreck sit there for 10 hours when everyone knows you can’t respond, doesn’t change anything. It’s still sitting there tomorrow. In a massive pile-on, the Pittee can’t get to everything. Slowing down the rate of stuff coming at them gives them the opportunity to discuss the issues more fully and more rationally.. It has the ability to elevate the level of the conversation. The Pitters still get their say, particularly the OP since the OP already had their chance to think out what they wanted to say in advance. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Whoo hoo! Top five! Don’t be modest. Top 4! Almost the leader of the pack! 😛 > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m totally not posting this just to catch up to DrDeth. I’d give this a like if I could. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/702 "2021-08-21T13:34:54Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Maybe for some. For whoever’s getting slammed, that’s hours and hours that they have to let any lies, omissions, and disinformation sit there unchallenged… > > Having been on the bottom of more pile-ons than I can count (not on the Dope), with ugly lies, omissions and disinformation galore about me, let me assure you that having that dreck sit there for 10 hours when everyone knows you can’t respond, doesn’t change anything. It’s still sitting there tomorrow. Yeah, but at least it’s been answered. > [@](#): > > In a massive pile-on, the Pittee can’t get to everything. Slowing down the rate of stuff coming at them gives them the opportunity to discuss the issues more fully and more rationally… It has the ability to elevate the level of the conversation. > > The Pitters still get their say, particularly the OP since the OP already had their chance to think out what they wanted to say in advance. It’s not always the Pittee who’s getting slammed with lies, omissions, and disinformation. They often give as good as they get. > [@](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Whoo hoo! Top five! > > Don’t be modest. Top 4! Almost the leader of the pack! 😛 Tied now with DemonTree for third! Neck-and-neck! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/703 "2021-08-21T13:37:33Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Having been on the bottom of more pile-ons than I can count TMI!!! ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/704 "2021-08-21T13:48:00Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Yeah, but at least it’s been answered. Not really. There are hundreds of lies out there about me that I haven’t had time to answer while the thread moved on. I’m sure that’s true of almost every Pittee. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > It’s not always the Pittee who’s getting slammed with lies, omissions, and disinformation. They often give as good as they get. They only have one response to draft. Waiting to post it shouldn’t be a big deal. If more people turn on each other in the thread, those people might appreciate the additional time as well. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/705 "2021-08-21T13:54:15Z")
That may be true in some or even many cases, but I still consider slow mode to be a tool for giving the staff time to properly moderate the thread. Elevating the level of the conversation isn’t really the point of the Pit. I’ve found some minutes adequate. Hours is just too long. Though if there’s a staff shortage–god forbid in these trying times–hours might become necessary. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/706 "2021-08-21T14:08:03Z")
Umm if it’s a ‘’‘pile on’’’ why does he Pitee need to respond to every post? I mean, isn’t responding to one ‘piler’ responding to them all? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=36)