# How should the Pit be changed, if at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859 "2021-07-19T23:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/101 "2021-07-21T16:58:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > 3 [MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) Joined 11/6/2018 Named a troll on 12/22/2018 [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21392073&postcount=8964) Last post on 3/29/2019 (Supposedly, a Russian bot) > > Your list has an error. @MortSaulFan posted recently. > > [snip] > > I ask, therefore, that you retract your claim. Retract? That only strengthens my claim. Mort is just one of those who stuck it out despite being named a troll and a Russian agent. You can’t ask or expect everybody to do that. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/102 "2021-07-21T17:00:44Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Retract? That only strengthens my claim. Ahhh, OK. So, how long is that list once the incorrect claims are eliminated? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/103 "2021-07-21T17:03:02Z")
There are no incorrect claims. These are people who were attacked unfairly. A few of them probably were trolls. A few of them stuck around. Most weren’t and most didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/104 "2021-07-21T17:05:25Z")
Again, the vast majority of posters on the SDMB register and never post, or register and post a handful of times in one topic before disappearing (often answering a question somebody asked in a decades old thread with a tidbit that had been mentioned five times already in the thread). Do you have any evidence that the rate of people living is greater in the group that is called out as trolls compared to everyone else? Without a baseline for comparison, we can make ridiculous statements like “marriage is the leading cause of divorce”. Based on the way most newbies use the Dope, I think it’s far more likely that they never even realized they were pitted. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/105 "2021-07-21T17:09:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Again, the vast majority of posters on the SDMB register and never post, or register and post a handful of times in one topic before disappearing (often answering a question somebody asked in a decades old thread with a tidbit that had been mentioned five times already in the thread). Do you have any evidence that the rate of people living is greater in the group that is called out as trolls compared to everyone else? I’ll leave that as an exercise for the mods who have better tools. In any event, it’s not a good look, and I know that I wouldn’t stick around after some self-appointed schlubs called into question not just my posts or my facts, but my entire purpose for being here. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/106 "2021-07-21T17:11:08Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > There are no incorrect claims. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > 3 [MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) Joined 11/6/2018 Named a troll on 12/22/2018 [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21392073&postcount=8964) Last post on 3/29/2019 (Supposedly, a Russian bot) You’re standing by the claim that his last post was 3/29/2019? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/107 "2021-07-21T17:11:31Z")
Okay, but now, what exactly what the purpose of that list? Is it listing the “last post” of those posters named as trolls? Because obviously, if that is the case, your methodology is wrong; **MortSahlFan** is still actively posting, so his “last post” is definitely not correct in your list; how many others aren’t? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/108 "2021-07-21T17:13:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > There are no incorrect claims. > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > 3 [MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) Joined 11/6/2018 Named a troll on 12/22/2018 [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21392073&postcount=8964) Last post on 3/29/2019 (Supposedly, a Russian bot) > > You’re standing by the claim that his last post was 3/29/2019? I told you that it was old data. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/109 "2021-07-21T17:14:17Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > These are people who were attacked unfairly. LAZombie, who got suspended – at least in part – for trolling, was attacked unfairly? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/110 "2021-07-21T17:16:24Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Okay, but now, what exactly what the purpose of that list? > > Is it listing the “last post” of those posters named as trolls? Because obviously, if that is the case, your methodology is wrong; **MortSahlFan** is still actively posting, so his “last post” is definitely not correct in your list; how many others aren’t? You see the reasons given for naming those posters as trolls. They were stupid reasons. Unfair reasons. The sorts of things bullies and overzealous insular “protectors” use. I posted my evidence. How anyone interprets it is up to them. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/111 "2021-07-21T17:17:33Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > These are people who were attacked unfairly. > > LAZombie, who got suspended – at least in part – for trolling, was attacked unfairly? Maybe. I can’t find the post that got him named a troll, but in my notation, it seems that it was because he was a Trump supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/112 "2021-07-21T17:19:09Z")
By the way: [the thread pitting LAZombie got locked.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lazombie-a-pitting/849902) That doesn’t usually happen without the target being banned. You really should update that list. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/113 "2021-07-21T17:23:10Z")
> [@I can't believe they shut down TOP (The other Place)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-they-shut-down-top-the-other-place/826505/1): > > There was a [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) petition to shut it down!? wtf? > Hope I find a decent home here - I’m a refugee 😕 > dig this > > Are you kidding me?! > [@](#): > > Topix is a website that is based for people to use fake names as there log in name so they can say anything they want, true or false, about other individuals. There is no trace of the actual person that starts or replies to each topic. Children and… The first link from your list leads to this post. A poster opens a thread, their very first thread, complaining about how a site dedicated to misinformation was shut down. So they came here, to a site allegedly dedicated to fighting ignorance. I’m not calling them a troll, but someone wondering about their motives is hardly an “unfair attack”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/114 "2021-07-21T17:29:21Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > One, I wasn’t talking about the Pit, but about the troll-hunter threads. > > Two, here are a few (old data, and the links no longer work): It’s a pity the links don’t work, as I’m not entirely convinced by the characterizations of the reasons they were “driven away”. I mean, I remember **LAZombie** and have done a little digging, and the problem wasn’t that he was a “Trump supporter” (although his support for Trump was usually just making up reasons why “liberals are bad” in every forum). He was also a rabid Truther who believed that global warming might be caused by the Earth’s core heating up. He called [COVID-19 a “normal flu outbreak” and AIDS a “manufactured crisis”](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-bungling-of-covid-19-worse-than-reagans-on-aids/849717/39). His [bizarre defense of George Zimmerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/1429) didn’t win him any friends either. But if you carefully trim away all that and merely ascribe the reason for disliking him as “support for Trump”, it does rather neatly support your point. Can we place the same level of reliance on the descriptors of all the other people on that list? > [@Skywatcher](#): > > That doesn’t usually happen without the target being banned. His account says “Suspended”, but I couldn’t find a specific mod note. Last posting March 2020 in myriad COVID threads. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/115 "2021-07-21T17:30:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m not calling them a troll, but someone wondering about their motives is hardly an “unfair attack”. Well, [somebody did](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9011). Several somebodies: > [@](#): > > Was coming here to mention them. Yes, I know I gave a welcoming post in the thread, but I hope you guys can read between the lines a bit. I’m basically saying that we don’t allow that shit here, so either shape up or get out. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/116 "2021-07-21T17:34:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > One, I wasn’t talking about the Pit, but about the troll-hunter threads. > > > > Two, here are a few (old data, and the links no longer work): > > It’s a pity the links don’t work, as I’m not entirely convinced by the characterizations of the reasons they were “driven away”. > > I mean, I remember **LAZombie** and have done a little digging, and the problem wasn’t that he was a “Trump supporter” (although his support for Trump was usually just making up reasons why “liberals are bad” in every forum). He was also a rabid Truther who believed that global warming might be caused by the Earth’s core heating up. He called [COVID-19 a “normal flu outbreak” and AIDS a “manufactured crisis”](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-bungling-of-covid-19-worse-than-reagans-on-aids/849717/39). His [bizarre defense of George Zimmerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-zimmerman-in-the-news-again/694480/1429) didn’t win him any friends either. > > But if you carefully trim away all that and merely ascribe the reason for disliking him as “support for Trump”, it does rather neatly support your point. > > Can we place the same level of reliance on the descriptors of all the other people on that list? Looks like he was named a trock [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/7739) for this post: > [@Trump sued by Stormy Daniels over hush payment](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-sued-by-stormy-daniels-over-hush-payment/810163/461): > > The exercise in finding something good or positive about a person you despise is about you not the person you despise. Emotion fuels many people not objective thinking. Some of the recent accomplishments of Trump include a new trade deal with South Korea with better terms for the USA and having China acknowledge that it should lower its 25% tariff on cars as well as honoring intellectual property rights. > > The fact that China has a 25% tariff on cars from the USA is buried with all of the crimes of Democrats. You have to search pretty hard to find them. As with the threat of tariffs on Chinese steel, no recent articles even discuss the merit of imposing the taxes just the possible ramifications. So yes. That was an unfair well-poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/117 "2021-07-21T17:35:40Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Well, [somebody did](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9011). Several somebodies: To be clear, I am not calling them a troll because speculating on their troll status isn’t allowed in ATMB, not because I have some huge moral opposition to calling someone a troll. My point is that characterizing it as an “unfair attack” is rather off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/118 "2021-07-21T17:38:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Well, [somebody did](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/9011). Several somebodies: > > My point is that characterizing it as an “unfair attack” is rather off the mark. Looks to me like they didn’t understand this board or its culture. That’s a far cry from trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/119 "2021-07-21T17:40:36Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Looks to me like they didn’t understand this board or its culture. That’s a far cry from trolling And that’s your opinion. Doesn’t mean that anyone with a different opinion is making “unfair attacks”. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/120 "2021-07-21T17:41:19Z")
My opinion is that it was an unfair attack. Duh. ETA: Fuck! I forgot that this board still does the delete-the-quote thing. Grrrr… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859.md?page=7)