# How should the West respond to "hostage diplomacy"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441 "2021-03-22T16:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/21 "2021-03-24T18:20:12Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Countries can choose to waive diplomatic immunity. But I guess the UK system of justice doesn’t meet the required standard… They can. But for a traffic violation? One that has become highly politicized? Boris Johnson has weighed in. UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has said "_Addressing Charles’s remarks, Raab asserted that the UK government is “on the family’s side” and continues to call on US authorities to cooperate."_ The Government of the UK has been very clear they are biased on this case. There is no way Sacoolas will be treated fairly. [https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/uk/harry-dunn-diplomatic-immunity-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/uk/harry-dunn-diplomatic-immunity-intl/index.html) > [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Seriously dude? No, humorously. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/22 "2021-03-25T00:14:50Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Every single western country: all the EU, Canada, Australia, Japan. Every single western country bar one. Guess which one that is. > > All these countries believe the ICC adheres to basic standards on the rule of law. But the US doesn’t. Odd huh? But you weren’t talking about any of those countries. You were talking about China and Iran. Do you feel China and Iran have higher standards for human rights than the United States has? Do you feel that the United States should recognize China and Iran as its moral exemplars? ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/23 "2021-03-25T10:09:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But for a traffic violation? One that has become highly politicized? If they had waived immunity early on, it wouldn’t have become politicized at all. And traffic violation? Driving up to a stop sign, without coming to a complete stop, is a traffic violation. What Saccolas did is called vehicular manslaughter, or specifically in the UK “Causing death by dangerous driving”. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you feel China and Iran have higher standards for human rights than the United States has? None of these countries remotely qualifies as a beacon of human rights. But what we’re talking about in this thread, is abusing the legal system for strategic political ends. And there the US is well in front on. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/24 "2021-03-25T13:18:54Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > None of these countries remotely qualifies as a beacon of human rights. But what we’re talking about in this thread, is abusing the legal system for strategic political ends. And there the US is well in front on. Just to be clear, you’re saying the United States abuses international law more than China, Iran, and Russia? ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/25 "2021-03-25T14:06:35Z")
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. How many sanctions regimes are China, Iran and Russia spearheading, targeted at their geopolitical rivals. How many whistleblowers and journalists are they attempting to extradite? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/26 "2021-03-25T15:16:33Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > What Saccolas did is called vehicular manslaughter, or specifically in the UK “Causing death by dangerous driving”. So you have decided she is guilty now, without a trial. Exactly why she shouldnt waive immunity. Note that the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have also made that same conclusion. She can get a fair trial. And of course there is the clear and obvious British xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/27 "2021-03-25T15:17:55Z")
Then there is no use trying to reason with you. Crimea? Ukraine? Tibet? Mongolia? ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/28 "2021-03-25T15:40:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So you have decided she is guilty now, without a trial. No one, not even Sacoolas is denying the facts of the matter: that she was driving a car on the wrong side of the road, thereby causing an accident, which killed a man. But my opinion on it is irrelevant. I’m not on any jury. Is it your position that people who are pretty obviously guilty shouldn’t face a trail? Also, you’re moving the goalposts here. You said the US shouldn’t bother waiving immunity over something as petty as a “traffic violation”. I was pointing out that someone died. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Crimea? Ukraine? Tibet? Mongolia? Can you clarify what you mean by that. Other than countries do bad stuff - because I’m not arguing they don’t. Just about the hypocrisy. Also, Mongolia? What about Mongolia? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441/29 "2021-03-25T15:48:56Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Okay. I guess there’s no point in continuing then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-west-respond-to-hostage-diplomacy/938441.md?page=1)