# How Should We Combat Modern Racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736 "2009-09-27T08:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/81 "2009-10-04T04:32:28Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Actually,\* this\* is racism. > > Who are you talking about? Who, specifically, is the “they” who “ask for handouts and condemn whites as if the latter are some unified force like the Borg?” > > Careful, now. You left a petard somewhere around here. You say that…and then you say this: > [@](#): > > Bullshit. This country owes a hell of a lot more to these people and their descendants than it’s given So who are “these people” that you’re talking about? Hmmm? The ones sold as slaves are all long dead. Their descendants have never been slaves. So who are “these people?” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/82 "2009-10-04T04:32:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Waaaaaahh, I’m a racist. Waaaaaaaah, I’m a racist. Disgusting, disgusting, disgusting. We should all flagellate ourselves and cry all night long because once upon a time there was slavery. WAAAAAAH! WAAAAAAH! I have no idea whether you are racist. You are clearly ignorant of history and, while reparations are a bad idea, the opposition you have expressed against them in this thread appears to be based on nothing more than a desire to pout and a rather petulant desire to flaunt that ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/83 "2009-10-04T04:35:12Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > You say that…and then you say this: > > So who are “these people” that you’re talking about? Hmmm? > The ones sold as slaves are all long dead. Their descendants have never been slaves. So who are “these people?” Slaves and their descendants. Like I said. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/84 "2009-10-04T04:37:27Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I have no idea whether you are racist. You are clearly ignorant of history and, while reparations are a bad idea, the opposition you have expressed against them in this thread appears to be based on nothing more than a desire to pout and a rather petulant desire to flaunt that ignorance. And your argument appears to me to be nothing more than Marxist historical revisionism and cultural relativism, along with a very large dose of white guilt and self-flagellation. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I’ll see you in Rhodesia! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/85 "2009-10-04T04:53:06Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > And your argument appears to me to be nothing more than Marxist historical revisionism and cultural relativism, along with a very large dose of white guilt and self-flagellation. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I’ll see you in Rhodesia! There is nothing Marxist about an accurate presentation of history, which mine is. It is not even revisionist. I have proposed no cultural relativism: slavery is no more monolithic than other human endeavors, on the one hand, but I have not claimed that it is ever good, only that the slavery for which reparations are demanded differs from the slavery that is currently practiced–an historic fact. I make no claim that whites should engage in self-flagellation. That is nothing more than your invention. In the interest of the Straight Dope, I do note that boasts that whites ended slavery should be tempered with the acknowledgement that they only ended what they had created. However, I assign no guilt to anyone based on their complexion and I do not encourage anyone of European ancestry to feel shame for actions taken by similarly complected people between the 15th and 19th centuries. That is, again, your invention. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/86 "2009-10-04T04:59:12Z")
Actually, Tom, I’m going to have to concede that you raise a very interesting point, which is this: the Arabs were arguably just as involved in the slave trade as the Europeans. The Arabs, today, have vast wealth. I am sure, for instance, that Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have even deeper pockets than Uncle Sam. Why, then, do those seeking reparations not petition Saudi sheiks - the heirs to the vast fortunes of the great Caliphs - for their dole? Why further strain the already put-upon U.S. government, a weak and sickly jackass loaded down with cargo, when they could be hitching a ride on a sleek Arabian stallion? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/87 "2009-10-04T05:41:07Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Bullshit. This country owes a hell of a lot more to these people and their descendants than it’s given, and huffing and puffing about fucking “hucksters” is racism so thinly veiled I can see the yellow-white of its eyes. There you go, just got label people as racists…:rolleyes: And they only thing this country owes a descendant of a slave is to treat him like they treat every other member of scoiety. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/88 "2009-10-04T05:49:23Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I doubt that you really agree with any of the points I was trying to make, then. Get a dictionary, friend. I said you had made some good points, not that I necessarily agreed with your position. In your book, I guess it’s pretty fucking amazing someone could do that, huh? Newsflash: you’re part of the problem. You’re a perpetuant. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/89 "2009-10-04T07:04:58Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > So people should receive money solely because of their race? Yes, that’s really in the spirit of Martin Luther King. “Content of their character” my ass…none of today’s black race hustlers and hucksters give a tinker’s damn about anything that Martin Luther King said; Yes, let’s talk about what Martin Luther King said: > [@](#): > > “A society that has done something special _against_ the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special _for_ him, in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.” > –_Let The Trumpet Sound_, by Stephen B. Oates, p. 426 > [@](#): > > “A section of the white population, perceiving Negro pressure for change, misconstrues it as a demand for privileges…The ensuing white backlash intimidates government officials who are already too timorous.” > – _A testament of hope: the essential writings of Martin Luther King, Jr_, by Martin Luther King Jr., James Melvin Washington, p. 177 > > * * * > > "Although the terms desegregation and integration are used interchangeably, there is a great deal of difference between the two…Desegregation simply removes legal and social prohibitions. Integration is creative…more profound and far reaching than desegregation… > > “Integration…is the welcome participation of Negroes into the total range of human activities…Desegregation is not enough; integration alone is consonant with our national purpose.” > – ibid, p. 123 > > * * * > > Reporter: “Do you feel it’s fair to request a multi-billion dollar program of preferential treatment for the Negro, or any other minority?” > > Dr. King: “I do indeed…Within common law, we have ample precedents for special compensatory programs. … America adopted a policy of special treatment for her millions of veterans…They could negotiate loans from banks to launch businesses. They could receive special points to place them ahead in competition for civil service jobs…There was no appreciable resentment of the preferential treatment being given to the special group.” > – ibid, p. 367 > [@RikWriter](#): > > Who is “the US” in this little fantasy? Because in case you haven’t noticed, the US government changes every 4-8 years. The people of the US who perpetrated slavery died long, long ago. The people who demonstrated against integration are mostly dead…or Democratic senators from West Virginia. > Of course that ignores the fact that the US government has, at various times, thrown billions of dollars at trying to aid minorities. Uh-huh. And how do you feel about the collective reparations made to the state of Israel after the Holocaust? > [@](#): > > However, many Germans and Jews shared outrage towards the Luxembourg Treaty. **Dr. Noah Barou, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, demanded that the West German government assume a binding obligation to make collective reparation and accept the moral, political, and material responsibility for the deeds of the Third Reich.** > … > The Luxembourg Treaty helped Israel achieve a level of economic stability between 1953 and 1964. The Treaty was divided into four separate agreements, one specifically pertaining to Israel. The Israel agreement, otherwise known as the Shilumim, committed West Germany to pay Israel 3 billion Deutsche Marks (about $800 million) over a twelve year period. The reparations from West Germany were not based on cash. Israel had little need for cash, and West Germany had little means of supplying the cash. Israel needed raw materials to promote production. Therefore, some eighty- percent of the agreement was accepted in shipments of capital goods of all kinds. > > [Did the Holocaust Play a Role in the Establishment of the State of Israel?](http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/tomerkleinman.htm) Ignoring social facts such as race and culture makes no sense if you seriously examining human history, as a human being. It would be like doing something incredibly rude, and then demanding that people not take offense, since after all they don’t _need_ to feel that. As for later generations seeking compensation, this is also not unprecedented: > [@](#): > > More than 60 years after the Holocaust, the children of the survivors are demanding compensation from the German government for their suffering. > > [Lawsuit: Recognize 2nd generation as Shoah victims](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3387483,00.html) As is the case of the Japanese, and other groups. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/90 "2009-10-04T07:15:36Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I don’t know. But reparations would be a good start. > > - Honesty Reparations are kind of outside the scope of the debate, because that’s a policy matter. So let’s try to get this thing back on track, and go back to the OP: > [@sleeping](#): > > 1. Does the national discourse on race need to be changed? If so, how? This questions focuses on abstract conceptualizations of racism: implicit versus explicit, and binary versus graduated. > [@](#): > > 1. What should Obama’s approach be with regard to working class whites? Should he try to engage their fears explicitly? Should he pacify them by asserting a need for inter-racial harmony and togetherness? Or maybe he should attempt to channel their anger into class divisions by continuously pointing to those responsible for the economic crisis and counterposing them with poor blacks and whites? Or something else? This question focuses on the strategies needed to implement policies. This debate is not about reparations. It is not about whether blacks can be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/91 "2009-10-04T07:49:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Because it is an arbitrary and false claim, to begin with. There are multiple fashions embraced by numerous popuations–ethnic, economic, regional, and class–throughout the country and it is not even a majority of blacks who embrace the fashions you are decrying. I’m aware of that. Still, like I said, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch and when when a cultural phenomenon develops that includes the fashion I’m describing as part of the drug, thug and gangsta lifestyle, and music and celebrities that glorify those lifestyle elements, the fashion and music becomes a sort of symbol that is used to suggest that the wearer adheres to or supports that way of life. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Why should only blacks have to change their fashions and why should all blacks be “tarnished” by the actions of a subset of their population… Blacks don’t have to changer their fashions as the majority of the black population doesn’t dress and act in the way that I’m talking about. Neither to they belong to gangs or rob people or deal drugs or call their wives and girlfriends bitches and ho’s. What I’m talking about is the subset that does, and that subset has evolved the dress and language and attitude it has, IMO, for the express purpose of NOT fitting in equally with the rest of society (i.e., white society). They are perfectly happy to think of themselves as rough, tough badasses doing what they’ve got to do in order to survive, and laughing at the unhip and uptight white culture and the other blacks who seek an equal place in it. In other words, _THEY DON’T WANT EQUALITY_. Yes, they’d like to be treated as equals as long as they can cling to their thug image and way of life, but that goes back to what I said about the Hispanic kid I mentioned above. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you’re deliberately going to adopt a way of talking and dressing and comporting yourself that says you not only have no use for normal societal mores but that you are contemptuous of them and very likely prey upon its members, you can’t expect to be greeted with open arms and friendliness whenever you happen to need to interact with its members. So we have a situtation now in this country where great strides have been made in achieving civil rights and racial equality. It’s rare anymore to hear anyone use the n-word or to speak negatively of black people for no reason other than they happen to be black. Black people are now able to live, shop and go anywhere they want and nobody pays any attention. Racially mixed couples can be seen everywhere with hardly a raised brow in sight. Black kids and white kids who have gone to school with each other all through their school years are the best of friends and truly love, support and defend each other. So by and large, much progress has been made in eliminating the divisions that separate the races. However, a few problems remain and they are standing in the way of even greater progress. There are still vestiges of racism among both everyday blacks and whites that are throwbacks to the attitudes and resentments of the past. And blacks and whites for the most part still don’t socialize with one another in their homes. (I expect this to change over time as the school kids who are more comfortable with each other grow into adulthood and bring those friendships with them. Right now there are simply too many differences in the way black culture and white culture typically do things for the majority of the nation’s populace to feel comfortable just hanging out with each other.) So there are problems and situations that exist which still need work or the passage of time to correct. And then there is another element to the racial question that is making progress in these all these areas more difficult to achieve than it would be otherwise, and that is the culture of rap and thug life and the gangsta modes of dress and speech. And given that blacks and whites don’t really socialize with each other much, and given its dominance of the music and much of the entertainment industry, that negative and destructive element of black culture seems so ubiquitous that it has come to virtually define black culture for much of the white population. And, given that blacks and whites don’t really socialize with each other much, and, given its dominance of the music and so much of the entertainment industry, that element of black culture seems so ubiquitous as to virtually define black culture for much of the white population. And given the unquestionable negative aspects of that lifestyle, it creates a negative impression among whites and makes them less inclined engage in the social interactions between the races that are going to be necessary in order to achieve a truly colorblind society. > [@tomndebb](#): > > As long as any person who appears to have Afrcan ancestry is going to suffer the degradation of being watched for signs that he or she might act like a small number of people between the ages of 14 and 30 living in the inner city, it really has nothing to do with whether they “change,” but whether others are seizing on superficial differences of a minority of a minority to make excuses to treat them unfairly. This simply isn’t so. I think most people these days would love to have a comfortable and friendly relationship with members of every race. I know I would. But again, there are still differences that separate us. I don’t think most white people feel comfortable or that they are accepted and welcome when they find themselves among a group of Vietnamese or Chinese people, and I don’t think most Vietnamese and Chinese people particularly care to have whites wanting to befriend them and hang out at their houses. Similarly, I don’t think that at this point in time most black people really want a white guy coming over to their house to watch a ball game or barbeque steaks in the back yard. And whites are largely the same way with regard to members of other races. People simply prefer to spend their leisure time with people that they understand and have the most in common with. This is why men and women gravitate toward members of their own group at parties and their children’s ball games and during breaks at the workplace, and its why even now that blacks and Asians and other minority groups have great freedom as to where they can live and work, there are still areas that are predominately black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. It won’t be until the time comes, if it ever does, that all of these cultures thoroughly blend together socially that a racism in all its forms will become a thing of the past. But the type of racism that is the most troubling today is the racism and tension that still exists between blacks and whites, and the existence of rap and gangsta culture is serving only to drive a wedge between the races and make the day when race no longer matters that much further off. It gives ammunition to those who are already inclined toward racism anyway; it puts off and/or frightens people who would like to see more social interaction between blacks and whites; and it makes the struggle for equality that much more difficult for the majority of the black population who have to deal with the repercussions of the false and negative images of black people that the gangsta lifestyle, by virtue once again of its preponderance in the music and entertainment businesses and the number of young people who appear to embrace it, creates. People make value judgements about people based on the way they act, and they extrapolate that to entire groups. You could be the nicest, sweetest, most generous and caring person in the world, but if you have a mullet and live in a trailer park and have bad teeth and wear wife-beater T-shirts, the majority of the population, black, white or otherwise, is gonna peg you as a lowlife who probably is dishonest and has a problem with alcohol or meth and who physically and verbally abuses your wife, kids and pets. That’s just the way it is. And if whites were a minority and the primary and virtual sole image the rest of society got about white people was that of white trash alcoholics and wife-abusers who wore mullets, had bad teeth and did meth, you wouldn’t get very far by trying to point out that they are not representative of all whites. And now, even _I_ am tired of talking so I’m gonna bow out for the night. I hope the time I’ve taken to answer your post will prove to have done at least some good in helping you see that what I’m saying is different than what you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/92 "2009-10-04T09:34:46Z")
> [@horhay\_achoa](#): > > I can’t speak for others, but I think you are missing the point here…Some of these groups helped back in the day, but if we want to get past racism, we need to disband groups that are defined by race. It is like training wheels on a bike…they help at the beginning, but if you never take them off, you will never really learn how to ride a bike. They know how to ride a bike. The problem is that they keep getting it kicked out from under them. Training wheels help with the stability while it’s being kicked. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/93 "2009-10-04T12:55:20Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Uh-huh. And how do you feel about the collective reparations made to the state of Israel after the Holocaust? Were those reparations made A HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after the Holocaust? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/94 "2009-10-04T15:53:40Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Were those reparations made A HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after the Holocaust? So what’s the cut-off date for you? What’s that magic number after which time the group in question needs to “get over it”? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/95 "2009-10-04T16:00:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Get a dictionary, friend. I said you had made some good points, not that I necessarily agreed with your position. In your book, I guess it’s pretty fucking amazing someone could do that, huh? You said I made a lot of good points, and went wrong at the end. I pointed out that you probably hadn’t really gotten the points I was trying to make, since you, for instance, said you loved the quote that I was ridiculing. Thank you for the advice about getting a dictionary. > [@](#): > > There you go, just got label people as racists… I didn’t label anyone as a racist. If I was in the business of telling people what they _are_, I’d have come up with a few more labels before I got to that one. You and your colleague here have predictably begun frothing about how I’m whining and crying and calling you racists, as if the important thing here is what box we put each other in, when I don’t give a good god damn whether you personally are a racist or not. What I did was say that a particular perspective was a racist one, a point which has been entirely ignored thus far. This is a thread about combating racist perspectives. I suggested that it is a problem that the United States never took appropriate measures to remedy the social ills it had created, and that many “modern” social perspectives are unfairly distorted and prejudiced as a result of that. In response, I get “WAAHH WAHH I’M A RACIST” and some little pictures of a green man rolling his eyes at me, along with a few lame-ass attempts at a gotcha moment. Anyway, sorry, **sleeping**. I know this was a serious attempt at a conversation, and that isn’t what’s going on now. I won’t continue to pee in it. –edit to add: [QUOTE=sleeping] So what’s the cut-off date for you? What’s that magic number after which time the group in question needs to “get over it”? [/QUOTE] In addition to which, pointing to the promptness of Holocaust reparations isn’t much of an argument against the proposition that a remedial measure for slavery is late in coming, is it? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/96 "2009-10-04T16:29:06Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > So what’s the cut-off date for you? What’s that magic number after which time the group in question needs to “get over it”? The cut-off date is when everyone who perpetrated the crimes and everyone who was affected by them is dead. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/97 "2009-10-04T16:34:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m aware of that. Still, like I said, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch and when when a cultural phenomenon develops that includes the fashion I’m describing as part of the drug, thug and gangsta lifestyle, and music and celebrities that glorify those lifestyle elements, the fashion and music becomes a sort of symbol that is used to suggest that the wearer adheres to or supports that way of life. > > Blacks don’t have to changer their fashions as the majority of the black population doesn’t dress and act in the way that I’m talking about. Neither to they belong to gangs or rob people or deal drugs or call their wives and girlfriends bitches and ho’s. What I’m talking about is the subset that does, and that subset has evolved the dress and language and attitude it has, IMO, for the express purpose of NOT fitting in equally with the rest of society (i.e., white society). Based on your attempt to place the blame for racism on your “one bad apple” analogy and your effort to set up a fairly small minority of blacks as the “reason” for continued racism, then I contend that rednecks and crackers are the “real” reason for racism and the “whites” need to “do something” about rednecks and crackers in order to resolve the problem. You admit that the people you are singling out are a minority of the population and the the majority actually behave in ways of which you approve, yet you still contend that is the people of whom you do not approve who are at the heart of racial division in the country. You do later make good points about people not interacting socially, much. But to place the blame for that on a gangsta subculture when, by your own admission, that group is a small subset of the population, is nothing morer than your decision to put up arbitrary barriers where no real barriers exist. (Frankly, that subculture is most prevalent in neighborhoods of the inner cirty where you are unlikely to find a lot of white folks hanging out and the whites who do are likely to be, like Eminem, fully integrated into that culture. Claiming that as an excuse for non-fraternization is silly.) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/98 "2009-10-04T17:26:34Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The cut-off date is when everyone who perpetrated the crimes and everyone who was affected by them is dead. I am affected. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/99 "2009-10-04T17:34:05Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The cut-off date is when everyone who perpetrated the crimes and everyone who was affected by them is dead. Well, Holocaust reparations were paid to individual survivors, but there were also collective payments, which I is what I focused on. It seems that your objection is to any kind of transfer of wealth that is not from one individual to another, since you predicate guilt only on individual responsibility. The time issue is actually peripheral, since you would presumably also object to _all_ Germans (of varying beliefs and generational status) being taxed, collectively, to make a collective payment to the state of Israel, or even to individual survivors. The problem with that is it ignores the social reality that race and ethnicity matter, and still play enormously important roles in our societies. And while the effects of past injustices _may_ be attenuated by time, that does not mean that they don’t exist, or that they are trivial. You claim that “the US government changes every 4-8 years.” Well, if that should preclude any sort of reparations process from commencing, then why was Germany, which had a complete regime change after WW2, held responsible for the aforementioned collective payments? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/100 "2009-10-04T17:36:15Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I am affected. That’s your opinion. The facts disagree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736.md?page=6)