# How Should We Combat Modern Racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736 "2009-09-27T08:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/141 "2009-10-08T12:27:29Z")
Another recent example of behavior that reflects negatively. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_7UaZ3Lg8) ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/142 "2009-10-08T14:34:28Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Another recent example of behavior that reflects negatively. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA\_7UaZ3Lg8&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_7UaZ3Lg8&feature=related) Sure, I feel similarly when I see yet another white man hauled in jail (oops, I mean, given _probation_ :smack:) for humping on toddlers and children. Aside from MJ, have you noticed that you guys are the only ones that hump on little girls and boys? Seriously. Doesn’t that reflect negatively on all white men in the U.S? - Honesty P.S I do not condone the behavior in the video. They all deserve the electric chair for what they did to that boy and the grief they’ve caused his family. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/143 "2009-10-08T15:01:00Z")
> [@Paleface](#): > > Another recent example of behavior that reflects negatively. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA\_7UaZ3Lg8&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_7UaZ3Lg8&feature=related) So, under your stated definition that would make them niggers. Right? Just like Kanye West? ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/144 "2009-10-08T15:32:35Z")
I seriously doubt that Paleface’s usage of the word nigger stops at just the blacks who are “reflecting negativity on their race.” Incidentally stopping racism by being nice is a futile strategy since it is group membership(Black s, Latinos, Asians etc) and not actions that qualify you to be targeted. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/145 "2009-10-08T15:50:01Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Well, yeah, the Right is pretty vicious in general, but the even the Clintons never experienced anything this bad. > > That’s right. A president who is attempting healthcare reform is getting 4 times as many death threats as a president who lied the country into a war that’s killed over a million people. You should read more carefully. The incidence of threat has increased 4 fourfold not DEAH threats. Maybe they just want to maim him or something. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/146 "2009-10-08T15:59:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > On the other hand, claiming that baggy pants, tattoos, slang, and forms of music are “self-destructive” is little more than a denial of your claim that we are making headway against racism. Your list of fashions that have nothing to do with productivity, thrift, or “self-destruction” conveniently ignores big hair, too-tight shield shirts, mullets, wife-beaters, and endless songs of infidelity that are embraced by a population that is often as financially-disadvantaged and -inept as the group you attempted to highlight. I agree that poor whites and poor blacks have similar destructive cultural norms but spend some time in inner city black neghborhood and then spend some time in Appalachia and it will become obvious that the folks in the innner city have created a social norm that is far more destructive than what you get in Appalachia. As for the pants and the tattos and the music, its more than a fashion statement, it is part of a uniform that derives from ex-cons who aren’t used to wearing belts and have lots of tattoo (not necessarily for artistic purposes but to identify gang allegiances and stuff like that). Songs that glorify violence and irresponsibility also seem kind of counterproductive to me. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/147 "2009-10-08T18:02:44Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > To put it mildly, we need to get past race as an issue for ANYTHING. So we should just ignore the history that has led us to the current state of affairs and just ignore the fact that the current state of affairs has put 80% of black households below the median. Lets just chalk up the difference to low black IQ and move ahead assuming that we are all playing on a level playing field. > [@](#): > > Racial hate crimes are crimes, period. Well, I guess if there is a public policy reason to discourage crimes based on racism (burning crosses, lynching, etc.), there is probably a reason to distinguish a regular beating from a beating based on racism. > [@](#): > > Racial profiling exists (for a reason) I don’t really give a shit what the reason is but if it is valid then it’s ok in my book. Validity would be established by the majority morality. Does it bother you at all that the overwhelming majority of innocent (based on the innocence project) men sentenced to death have been black? Is that just happenstance or is it perhaps because people are just more willing to believe with enough certainty to impose a death penalty that a black man raped and murdered a young woman than to believe that anyone else might have done the same thing. > [@](#): > > Why is there an inequality of white folks in the NBA? NFL? But we have established working guidelines to hiring practices in the public and private business? Well, if you’ll recall, this was not always the case. Blacks were not always allowed to participate. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/148 "2009-10-08T18:07:29Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I disagree with your take, **sleeping**. **Magellan’s** argument is compelling in a sort of “fake it till you make it” kind of way. Why couldn’t racism as we know it fade away “organically” over time? Other kinds of bigotry have (e.g. racism in Brazil, bigotry against various European ethnic groups in the the U.S.), so there is precedent. Why do you think that prejudice against the Irish or the Italians have faded away while prejudice against Blacks has not? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/149 "2009-10-08T18:14:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And yes, there are more nutcases. That does not mean that it’s _racism_ that powering the Birthers, Death-panelites and so forth. Please tell me wtf the birthers are thinking, cuz it really makes very little sense to me? Is it just rabid lunatic partisanship and they would have questioned the birth credentials of any Democratic president that spent part of their youth overseas or does the fact that Obama looks different have something to do with their willingness to question Obama’s “native born” status. If you want to defend the typical run of the mill conservative from charges of racism, then fine but I just can’t figure out the fringe movements like the birthers. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/150 "2009-10-08T18:18:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree that poor whites and poor blacks have similar destructive cultural norms but spend some time in inner city black neghborhood and then spend some time in Appalachia and it will become obvious that the folks in the innner city have created a social norm that is far more destructive than what you get in Appalachia. I’ve lived among both. The only differences I could see were the result of urban vs rural situations and the poor whites who lived in cities were no less subject to self-destructive behaviors than the blacks in the next neighbohood over. Differing between crack and meth is really no difference. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/151 "2009-10-08T18:25:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And yes, they are very much viewed as threats and outsiders and as people to be avoided. I think more people feel threatened by black kids wearing gangsta and acting gangsta than white kids doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/152 "2009-10-08T18:27:42Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > But unfortunately there are those who because they’re not Caucasian rationalise to themselves that they themselves are not racist when they are just as bad as any White supremicist. It is a lot harder for disadvantaged minorities to institutionalize racism. Lets face it we are all racist and xenophobic, liberals generally recognize this, conservatives rationalize it. > [@](#): > > It weakens any attempts to engender genuine racial equality in the workplace,politics or everyday life when White Nazis can point the finger at their accusers and say “hey why’re you pointing us out when they’re just as bad?” You are acting as if the field is already level. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/153 "2009-10-08T19:40:01Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > This questions focuses on abstract conceptualizations of racism: implicit versus explicit, and binary versus graduated. I think the problem is that when racists were killing little black girls by bombing them while they were in church, it was easy for everyone to agree that killing little grils is a bad thing even if they are black. Its a lot easier to see and combat that kind of racism. Its a lot tougher to convince the majority of a population that they might not deserve what they have worked so hard to achieve because their position in society is the result of the reduced competition they have experienced because society and history has hanidcapped 20% of the population from competing with you for that position in society. How do you tell the hard working line worker back when blacks were trying to get into unions that there is a 1 in 5 chance that their job would have actually gone to a black guy if things were fair? How do you tell a college student that they might not have gotten into that particular college if we hadn’t enslaved and discriminated against blacks for centuries? In a world where most people are disappointed by where they ended up in life, you are basically telling them that they don’t actually even deserve what they have because they are benefitting from a historical advantage that they neither earned nor deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/154 "2009-10-08T19:41:48Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Were those reparations made A HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after the Holocaust? Wow, really, so reparations would have been unnecessary if we just ignored them for long enough? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/155 "2009-10-08T19:42:54Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The cut-off date is when everyone who perpetrated the crimes and everyone who was affected by them is dead. Ahh so then the cut-off date is still way in the future because the effect of slavery is still felt today. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/156 "2009-10-08T19:51:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You assume there is some “debt” something than can be paid and someone is made whole. I think that’s the wrong paradigm. Your last line points to what I think is the biggest problem. If you cut off my great-great-grandfather’s leg, that has no bearing on who far I can walk. Yeah, but it may affect whether or not you have shoes to walk in. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/157 "2009-10-08T19:55:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its a lot tougher to convince the majority of a population that they might not deserve what they have worked so hard to achieve because their position in society is the result of the reduced competition they have experienced because society and history has hanidcapped 20% of the population from competing with you for that position in society. How do you tell the hard working line worker back when blacks were trying to get into unions that there is a 1 in 5 chance that their job would have actually gone to a black guy if things were fair? How do you tell a college student that they might not have gotten into that particular college if we hadn’t enslaved and discriminated against blacks for centuries? I would say this has little to do with race and much more to do with equipping members of disadvantage communities with the tools they need to compete. Regardless of race. Even affirmative action is not going to help a poor black kid who can’t read get into college. What affirmative action does do, though, is draw an unnecessary distinction between “us” and “them”. A distinction that, in mind, does little to move us towards an equal society. Giving poor people a good education and the resources they need to compete is definitely a worthy pursuit, but it has nothing to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/158 "2009-10-08T20:00:16Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > These aren’t even the great-grandchildren of slaves. They’re the distant relatives of slaves. How long ago do you think the Civil War was fought? The last person who lived as under slavery died in 1979, he was 137 years old at death. There are in fact many folks alive today that are the children of slaves, the grandchildren of slaves and the great grandchildren of slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/159 "2009-10-09T12:08:23Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Sure, I feel similarly when I see yet another white man hauled in jail (oops, I mean, given _probation_ :smack:) for humping on toddlers and children. Aside from MJ, have you noticed that you guys are the only ones that hump on little girls and boys? Seriously. Doesn’t that reflect negatively on all white men in the U.S? Then you are just as racist as a white who associates all blacks with the aforementioned behavior. See, all I am doing is pointing out the “why” of modern racism, and some of you are taking offense at that. ---
**Author:** ![Paleface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f19dbf/32.png) [@Paleface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paleface)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736/160 "2009-10-09T12:28:14Z")
And speaking of those taking offense at the truth… > [@enomaj](#): > > I seriously doubt that Paleface’s usage of the word nigger stops at just the blacks who are “reflecting negativity on their race.” Why can’t you take me at my word, since you don’t have any evidence to support a reason to doubt me? > [@](#): > > Incidentally stopping racism by being nice is a futile strategy… A “futile strategy”??? So, you think that behavior plays no part in stereotyping? You think that the disparate minority on white crime rate plays no part in fomenting racial tension? > [@](#): > > since it is group membership(Black s, Latinos, Asians etc) and not actions that qualify you to be targeted. Sure, there are isolated incidents that can be pointed to, but, in this day and age, it is behavior that refelcts negatively on the group. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-combat-modern-racism/511736.md?page=9)