Wait…did the Covington kids say that? :dubious:
The problem was was the the CC kids didn’t know how to react to the BI’s who were certainly trying to provoke a reaction. Had they gotten any guidance from adults at that time, then the whole situation would not have happened.
Run 'em down, obviously.
Except that scenario 1 was not about marching and protesting. It is about taking a school field trip. Would it be appropriate when you go to visit the museum of modern art to wear overtly political gear?
Well no, but, you should expect that if you wear something provocative, then someone may be provoked. You are free to wear that sort of material, and I am free to criticize you about it.
Ah, now here you are, saying that certain sorts of language should not be tolerated. Not so much on the free speech now, are you?
They march together, they ally together. They hate the same people. I can see how someone would have a similar reaction to the two.
Who said all of them? No, just the supporters that support and look forward to a fascist and authoritarian rule.
No, just in elections where “your side” elects a racist troll who inspires the rest of the racist trolls to come out of the woodwork.
Hopefully, “your side” will do better next time, and we can simply have disagreements on policy again.
I went to a Catholic school (K-8), and our parish would let the 8th graders attend the March for Life. I didn’t go, but some of my friends did and let me tell you, the vast majority only did so to get out of class.
Yeah, that would’ve been great – except for the fact that it’s pretty unrealistic to expect teenagers to be that mature. I know I certainly wouldn’t have been. And And the Black Hebrew Israelites are a scary bunch – they’ve been labeled a hate group by both the ADL and the SPLC.
Where the angels? No. But I’d blame the adults more than I would them.
No, I don’t expect teens to be that mature. That’s why I am saying that this advice should be given ahead of time. You should have chaperones actively enforcing de-escalation policies and practices, rather than encouraging school fight songs.
And yes, the BI’s were definitely the instigators and provocateurs of the event, and if I were their chaperone, I’d give them advice to cool it with the hate speech too. But, they were there for the specific purpose of trying to stir up trouble and create a confrontation.
But, you can only control the people that you are in charge of, you can’t keep the trolls from trolling, but you can at least try to prevent your wards from responding.
Yeah, that’s what happened. :dubious:
I’m not particularly political, but I spent plenty of time around smug, rich assholes growing up. Having watched most of the videos, It’s my opinion that these kids showed up to this protest wearing their MAGA gear to intentionally poke a hornets nest. Probably with no deeper motivation than they thought they were hot shit and that it would be funny.
I go around or call the police. I don’t stick my “AIG employee/contractor” badge in their face.
1.) You tell your students to behave peacefully and respectfully. They are representatives for your school. You also recognize that teenagers are boisterous and impulsive, so your chaperones should do some damn chaperoning. Contrary to what you seem to believe, large demonstrations are not that common and on an ordinary trip to the mall you are unlikely to run into one. If you do, quietly ignore it. That’s not what you’re here for. If some person or small group is yelling offensive things, ignore it and don’t encourage the kids to provoke them. If someone confronts you, walk away. especially if they are far away and you vastly outnumber them. I would also inform the kids prior to the trip that any city has a fair amount of weirdos in it, and to not get shocked when they are encountered.
2.) Pretty much the same as 1, although I would encourage people, kids and adults, to focus on the message they are trying to get across. Honestly this is a bigger problem on the left than the right. I lost count of how many “Free Mumia” signs I saw at protests against the Iraq war. What if you oppose the stupid war but think Mumia is guilty? Similarly, what if you oppose the right to choose, but you think Trump is a terrible president and MAGA hats are racist? Focus, people.
Gonna stay away from the political questions… but anytime you’re in a public space facing a hostile crowd, you have 2 choices:
1: Learn to de-escalate and avoid altercations, learn how to express your counter-opinion on a non-threatening way. Avoid being needlessly antagonistic. You’re trying to express some views, not get into a dick-measuring contest with strangers. (That’s what message boards are for.)
2: Be the biggest baddest mofo at the protest, then you can do what you want. (hard to pull off in a big crowd).
Of course situational awareness is key in either scenario.
I am going to differ on the consensus that being respectful and deferential is necessary in every case. Sometimes that’s a good tactic, but some ideas are just so gross and stupid that mocking and insulting is entirely appropriate. I actually don’t begrudge the smirking MAGA kid over his passive-aggressive tactic. Hate the kid’s views, I wish ill fortune upon him, but his tactic was pure genius and the subsequent news coverage proves it was a useful risk for his side.
But if you do this, accept the risk that someone might swing on you, and do it from a safe distance.
I agree with this, and I don’t even blame the smug rich teens. If the adults supposedly in charge of the group had simply said “Yes we see the crazy cultists too. Just ignore them and wait peaceably for the bus” the whole dumb thing wouldn’t have happened. Also, I would have told the kids to leave the MAGA hats at home. They are here to protest Roe v. Wade, not to stump for Trump. And as you say, they were only wearing the hats to provoke and troll anyway.
The New Yorker has a must-read article which starts from the Covington incident but goes on to raise several thought-provoking questions about the media in post-rational America. Read it!
Well YOU say that and maybe you are right. But is it any different than the other things you might see on a tshirt or sign? For example is having BLM on a hat 'poking and trolling"? How about a gay pride slogan? How about a pro choice slogan?
All those are statements arent they? Arent their people who would get mad at them?
Where does it cross the line when you are wearing a hat, shirt or whatever that sends a message from showing pride in what you believe in - to one of “poking and trolling”'?
As I said in the post you didn’t quote, if you are going to a political rally, your political attire should match the cause you are rallying for. Otherwise it’s a distraction. Again, I don’t blame the teens, but the adults should realize this and told them to leave the hats at home.
This is absolutely the last thing I have to say about this stupid non-story. Not even gonna touch your “What about…”
Absolutely, in certain places and contexts, those would be seen as trolling. Wear one of those to a Trump rally, see what kind of reaction you get.
Of course, why would you think otherwise? The entire point of wearing some sort of political or activist symbol is to provoke people, to let them know what side of things you are on.
You wouldn’t wear a Met’s hat to a Yankee game would you?
When you put it on. You seem to think that those are mutually exclusive options. That you cannot be proud of poking and trolling at those who disagree with you.
You choose to wear symbols of your political or activist affiliation, and when you make that decision, you should very well be aware that there may be people that you encounter that disagree with your political or activist position.
I’m sorry, I must have missed something. What the objection the the Black Lives Matter movement? Seems like something we could all support.
Having actually gone to an all-male Catholic high school in my time, and having a brother who’s a teacher/coach at one, I have to say that I’m not entirely surprised at the behavior of the students. Where I was aghast is at the seemingly entire absence of adult supervision, chaperones, or minders to steer them away / run interference from the Black Israelites and Native Americans who came to do their thing. What gang of idiots would actually let a bunch of boys that age be in a confrontation like that? The adults totally dropped the ball on the hats, the behavior and letting the situation escalate.
Look at it this way… they’re a bunch of probably 15-18 year old boys who are more or less immersed in a world that’s primarily populated by other 15-18 year old boys. It’s in large part, testosterone-central. Someone does something stupid that gets a rise out of someone who’s annoying you, and everyone doubles down on it. You’re going to see a lot of the same dumb-ass behaviors you see when you get ANY group of boys around that age together- being annoying, etc…
But as the adult chaperones/minders, you have to know that’s going to happen, and head it off at the pass. If nothing else you have to be not brain-dead enough to think that a Catholic school-associated group wearing MAGA hats isn’t going to look good, since they’re associated with racism, one of the ways the Catholic Church is very progressive. But I’d go one farther and expect the adults to be aware of what’s going on, and once that clown with the drum came over, to interject themselves between the kids and the protestor. Would this particular incident have even been a thing, had it been Nathan Phillips beating his drum at a stern faced priest wearing a roman collar? And if nobody had MAGA hats, or was dancing around, or chanting stupid stuff?
This was absolutely a chaperoning/minding failure- the right thing would have been for them to have done their anti-abortion protesting (that’s right in the Catholic wheelhouse), but have been squeaky clean otherwise, and it’s the responsibility of the adults to enforce that on the teenagers, since teen boys are notoriously idiotic and unaware of consequences, or concerned about what people think, except teen girls.
According to the student, the chaperones were around, as they allegedly asked them if they could start singing school fight songs at the BI’s. So, where were they, they were not just letting it escalate, it sounded like they were encouraging it.
If the chaperones had said, “No, you should sing some peaceful gospels or hymns, in order to meet their hate with Christ’s love.” then they would have been doing their jobs as the adults in the room. As it stands, it appears as though he chaperones were actually trying to increase the chances of a physical interaction.
There is something to be said for how they are taught to act in public. There is also quite a bit to be said for, when you are taking a group of students to represent your school, you take the ones that do know how to behave in public. What you say is true of most random groups of boys, but it is not that hard to find groups of boys that actually are respectful and peaceful. But, those boys would not be as interested in calling random women by hateful slurs, so they may not have served as well in trying to intimidate women out of bodily autonomy.
The school dropped the ball on both of those items, as well.
If the adults had done their thing, the Philips would never have become involved. You seem to have inaccurately described him as a protestor.
He saw a situation where there were no adults defusing the situation, and took it upon himself, rightly or wrongly, to prevent violence from occurring.
I doubt that he would have been concerned that a stern faced priest would be trolled into a physical confrontation with the BI’s as easily as an untended group of teenage boys.
Good points, the school failed in many ways to prepare these students to enter the world as adults.