# How should we "save" Social Security? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567 "2022-10-20T22:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/61 "2022-10-23T22:09:12Z")
How many insurance policies return 91% of the premiums paid in the first month? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/62 "2022-10-23T22:18:26Z")
I think plenty. Get a life insurance policy for $100,000 and die before you pay $1000, then you get 10000% return. I suspect what really goads right wingers about Social Security is that it helps people that they feel morally superior to. If the peasants only had your drive and initiative (or more often, rich parents), then they wouldn’t need SS. So they think SS is a means to take money from the morally superior and give it to the morally inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/63 "2022-10-23T22:24:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You seem to have no comprehension of how Insurance works. People pay in- many do not get out all they put in. Some get more. I get what you’re trying to say, but Social Security is **NOT** insurance in any way. One difference is that there is no contract–one of the parties (the government) can unilaterally change the rules at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/64 "2022-10-23T22:28:54Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > …Most people these days receive far more in benefits than they receive, though it’s less of a good deal considering the time value of money involved. … Most people? How about any single wage earner who dies before retirement age? I stand by my position that SS is - and always has been - PRIMARILY a wealth redistribution system. (And the disability programs are essentially perceived as general welfare.) It was presented as something else to make it politically palatable. IMO, it is time for that to change. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/65 "2022-10-23T22:36:29Z")
Are the SS disability programs based on one’s prior earnings, at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/66 "2022-10-23T22:46:47Z")
Yes and no. A wage earner’s DIB is. A survivor’s is based on SOME wage earner’s earnings, but not necessarily their own. The wage earner must have sufficient earnings to be eligible, and then the amount of your benefits is related to the level of your prior earnings. It is quite complex - far beyond explanation in a MB post. SSI does not require past earnings for disability or old age benefits. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/67 "2022-10-23T22:47:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Are the SS disability programs based on one’s prior earnings, at all? From what I understand, yes. Your SS statement should say how much you qualify for in disability should you be able to claim it. If it was a flat amount, there would be no need to put that in there. While I wouldn’t swear to the amount increasing over time, it seems like it’s always somewhat in line with what I’m projected to get if I retire, and that amount definitely goes up every year since my salary has been increasing significantly every year for the last 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/68 "2022-10-23T22:48:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > SSI does not require past earnings for disability or old age benefits. SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is burdened with having two letters in common with Social Security, when it really has nothing to do with it (other than perhaps being administered by the SSA). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/69 "2022-10-23T22:49:27Z")
[From AARP,](https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/info-2021/ssdi-benefit-calculation.html) > Mathematically speaking, [Social Security Disability Insurance](https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/apply-for-ss-disability/) (SSDI) is calculated in the same way as Social Security retirement benefits. Both are based on your record of “covered earnings” — work income on which you [paid Social Security taxes](https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/ss-tax-rate/). It goes in a bit more detail but to avoid copyright infringement I’ve limited it to the portion above. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/70 "2022-10-23T22:50:04Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Most people? How about any single wage earner who dies before retirement age? True, there are people that die without receiving benefits. It’s possible that in fact less than 50% of the people in the program have received less than the amount that they paid in, but I find it very unlikely. It’s true that I used “absolutely everyone” in another section of that, but that was meant in relationship to how the system worked, not in the fact that everyone gets back more. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/71 "2022-10-23T22:54:30Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is burdened with having two letters in common with Social Security, when it really has nothing to do with it (other than perhaps being administered by the SSA). Sure - different trust funds. Apologies - for the past 37 years, I’ve worked with SSI and DIB claims. The major difference is whether the identical regulatory sections start w/ 404 or 416. It is impressive (to me) what meagre earnings can constitute a quarter of coverage for DIB purposes. It would be a mistake to think that folk insured for SS DIB are all full time, career long workers. Another apology - I did not realize you intended “most” to mean \> 50% + 1. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/72 "2022-10-24T05:22:52Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > I get what you’re trying to say, but Social Security is **NOT** insurance in any way. > > One difference is that there is no contract–one of the parties (the government) can unilaterally change the rules at any time. I don’t know when the optimal time to die when you have a whole life policy, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t 100. In Social Security, putting off dying increases your payout. So there’s that. There is a way of calculating the value of a term life policy to you in the event that you foolishly don’t die during the term, but real money is more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/73 "2022-10-24T12:07:56Z")
Social security is much more like a different insurance product, an annuity, than life insurance. It is just about exactly like an inflation-protected annuity. Anyway, it’s definitely wrong to say that SS is not insurance in any way. Maybe the implementation is different (no contract, forced participation), but the actual payout is just like an annuity, which is definitely an insurance product. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/74 "2022-10-24T13:19:54Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Sure - different trust funds. SSI has no trust fund at all; it’s paid entirely out of federal general revenues. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/75 "2022-10-24T22:04:28Z")
Thanks - another point I shoulda known. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/76 "2022-10-25T03:16:21Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > SSI has no trust fund at all; it’s paid entirely out of federal general revenues. Gee Social Security thinks it has two trust funds. > **[What are the Trust Funds? | Press Office | SSA](https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/WhatAreTheTrust.htm)** > > What are the Trust Funds? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/77 "2022-10-25T03:39:13Z")
SSI = [Supplemental Security Income](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/ssi/?tl=0) Neither of the trust funds mentioned in your cite has anything to do with SSI, which is a welfare program specifically for low-income elderly and disabled who don’t have many assets. SSI is financed entirely out of general revenues rather than payroll taxes. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/78 "2022-10-25T13:49:15Z")
Sorry got confused. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/79 "2022-10-25T18:55:47Z")
Great username/post combo. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567/80 "2022-10-31T00:33:36Z")
How 'bout this idea? Government workers are subject to the social security offset _even if they have their 40 quarters_. So make it equitable so that **anyone** that collects from a pension, 401K, 403B, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA or any other retirement plan is subject to the offset as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-we-save-social-security/973567.md?page=5)