# How smart should a president be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207 "2002-11-27T21:35:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/41 "2002-12-03T03:23:17Z")
When has he ever been employed? When has he ever done physical labor? When has he ever done laundry? When has he ever swept a floor? When has he ever made toast? I didn’t say it wasn’t ok to call millionaire democrats morons, but Bill Clinton, at least, grew up dirt poor and actually earned scholarships to Oxford and Yale through legitimate academic achievment. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/42 "2002-12-03T03:33:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*When has he ever been employed? When has he ever done physical labor? When has he ever done laundry? When has he ever swept a floor? When has he ever made toast? We know that he was employed by the National Guard, the Texas Rangers, the State of Texas, and currently by the United States. According to an article I read recently, he clears most of the brush on his ranch himself, so he chooses to do physical labor. I don’t have any cites on laundry, toast or sweeping. You made the assertion, **Diogenes**. Where are your cites? > [@](#): > > …Bill Clinton, at least, grew up dirt poor and actually earned scholarships to Oxford and Yale through legitimate academic achievment. This is true. And Richard Nixon, who was not born to wealth and power, graduated first in his law school class. What a pair! Maybe a President needs attributes other than academic achievement, like character. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/43 "2002-12-03T03:50:08Z")
December beat me to it. His first thing out of college was to start his own company. Elsewhere he refers to working as a runner at a law firm. [http://archive.nandotimes.com/election2000/story/0,3977,500158265-500197230-500865177-0-nandotimes,00.html](http://archive.nandotimes.com/election2000/story/0,3977,500158265-500197230-500865177-0-nandotimes,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/44 "2002-12-03T03:54:06Z")
The Nationa Guard? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! :D. The National Guard was just a dodge to get out of Nam. He received special attention to get the assignment, which reinforces my argument that he has never been a target of discrimination, and therefore does not qualify for “PC” treatment. He never showed up for his last year of service anyway. Owning a baseball team is not a job. It is a hobby for rich people. It is the ultimate XBox video game. Governor of Texas? President? please :rolleyes: I am talking about REAL jobs. My point was that he has never been an ordinary working Joe. He is a child of privelege through and through. (So is Gore, and you’re right about Nixon. I’m not coming at this from a partisan standpoint. I was trying to reject an assertion that calling Bush a “moron” was “un-PC.”) I agree that a president should have character. Maybe we’ll get one someday. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/45 "2002-12-03T04:02:32Z")
He started his own oil company by calling a bunch of his Dad’s rich friends and borrowing money. He sat around in a cushy office for a couple of years until the company went bust and he absconded with his shareholders’ money. Buying a company with someone else’s money does not qualify as being an employee. He had a cushy college job at one of his daddy’s friends law firms? Oh, I take it all back. What horrific discrimination he faced :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/46 "2002-12-03T04:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*The Nationa Guard? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! :D. The National Guard was just a dodge to get out of Nam. You forget that he learned to pilot a military jet plane. Given his moron-level IQ, that must have taken several decades of work. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Owning a baseball team is not a job. It is a hobby for rich people. Right, but being the Managing Partner is a _lot_ of work. Baseball is big business, and obviously a competitive one. George W. Bush’s _partners_ didn’t have to do the management work, because he was doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/47 "2002-12-03T04:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally psted by December_ > > George W. Bush’s partners didn’t have to do the management work, because he was doing it. Given that he traded Sammy Sosa, he must not have been doing it very well. 😉 But come on December, you get my point. I was only trying to refute an assertion that calling him a “moron” is not PC. PC language is about racial slurs, sexist remarks, homophobic stereotypes. it is not about calling a rich guy a moron. I would make the same point about Gore or about Ted Kennedy or about anyone else who has never truly had to face any kind of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/48 "2002-12-03T05:25:14Z")
> [@](#): > > But come on December, you get my point. I was only trying to refute an assertion that calling him a “moron” is not PC. PC language is about racial slurs, sexist remarks, homophobic stereotypes. it is not about calling a rich guy a moron. I disagree completely. I remember all kinds of PC battles over the word ‘moron’. It’s demeaning. You can’t call regular people morons, because it becomes a derogatory term and insulting to real morons. And you can’t call real morons morons, because it’s also insulting. So they are ‘special’, or ‘intellectually challenged’, or the wost, ‘otherly gifted’, which some schools were using to describe their special education students. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/49 "2002-12-03T05:55:04Z")
Did you forget a wink smiley, **Sam** , or are you serious? The term “moron” does not have any clinical use any more. It does not denote a physiological mental disability, but a generic disparagement of intellectual character, judgement and acumen. If someone had called Bush a “retard,” that would have been PI, because it would have insulted mentally challenged people. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/50 "2002-12-03T16:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Governor of Texas? President? please :rolleyes: I am talking about REAL jobs. \*\* **Diogenes** , even though I posted the OP, I would consider being president to be a “real” job and probably one of the hardest in the world. I cannot fathom how stressful it is. **sleestak** , just because Bush had Homeland Security on his mind doesn’t excuse him not recognizing the name of the country’s welfare program. I would hope a president, who has to keep an eye on every issue under the sun, would be able to shift his focus from one issue to another without major difficulty. Yes, Barkley’s specific issue is minor, but my post was in regards to his not knowing the name of the overall program. I don’t think the results of the impromptu quiz Bush was given on world leaders before his presidency are particularly relevant, anymore. Frankly, one could argue anything before Sept. 11 is irrelevant at this point, in terms of Bush’s knowledge of the world around him. No matter what you feel about his politics, I think it’s pretty clear the man is much, much more well-versed in foreign affairs than he used to be. Seems like his knowledge of domestic affairs could use a little work though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/51 "2002-12-03T16:34:14Z")
POTUS is not a job. Construction work is a job. Law enforcement is a job. Flipping burgers is a job. It is certainly not work for Bush because other people make all the decisions for him. All W has to do is read off a teleprompter and go to GOP fundraisers. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/52 "2002-12-03T17:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > POTUS is not a job. … Law enforcement is a job. By definition, the President is the supreme law-enforcement official of the USA. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/53 "2002-12-03T18:00:08Z")
> [@](#): > > By definition, the President is the supreme law-enforcement official of the USA. Sophistry. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/54 "2002-12-03T18:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*POTUS is not a job. Construction work is a job. Law enforcement is a job. Flipping burgers is a job. It is certainly not work for Bush because other people make all the decisions for him. All W has to do is read off a teleprompter and go to GOP fundraisers. \*\* This assumes, of course, that all of Bush’s advisers are in 100% agreement on every course of action taken by the administration. But please, by all means, continue to call Bush dumb and otherwise underestimate his abilities. 'Cause, y’know, that tack has worked so well for Bush’s opponents thus far… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/55 "2002-12-03T18:54:55Z")
Thanks to W’s money, family connections and dumb luck, this moron – Got a BA from Yale – Got an MBA from Harvard – Became a jet pilot – Established and ran an oil business – Made a fortune running a baseball team – Beat a popular incumbant governor, Anne Richards, in his first political race – Improved minority education in Texas – Was overwhelmingly re-elected as governor – Made Texas a strongly Republican state – Was elected President – Won a legal battle against his opponent – Chose foreign policy advisors who were very well-qualified to deal with the war on terror – Got Congress to enact a large tax cut – Unilaterally cut our nuclear arsenal – Saved the Afghan people from the Taliban and from starvation last winter – Dispersed al Qaeda – Killed or disabled Osama bin Laden – Has been enormously popular with the American people – Led his party to unprecedected Congressional victory – Got Congress to pass the biggest government re-organization in 50 years – Got Congressional approval to attack Iraq – Got Congressional fast-track trade negtiation authority, which had been denied to Clinton – Got a unanimous UN resolution against Iraq I really don’t care if this was all luck, as long as his luck continues to hold! ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/56 "2002-12-03T19:10:34Z")
What are all of these posts about who had what sort of job? - Ronald Reagan grew up with an alcoholic father. Al Gore grew up as a US Senator’s son. Want to talk “real world?” So what. What does all of this have to do with “how smart a president should be?” Frankly, I’d imagine that Bush is “smarter” than most of the people who have decided he’s “dumb.” Bush appears to me to have both the necessary innate talent and knowledge to do the job of President. Innate talent including mental ability and people skills at various levels and forums. With that in mind - does anyone know what Bush made on his SATs? They couldn’t be as low as some here want to pretend. Or do Ivy League schools accept anyone with an 900 on the SAT as long as they have the money? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/57 "2002-12-03T19:20:30Z")
I qualify for MENSA, but I’m not sure I’d be a good president. I tend to be naively idealistic, I tend to be impulsive, I worry too much, I tend to rely on my own smarts (they got me this far, right?) instead of trusting other people who truthfully know more about it than I do. Bush is none of these things. I think his BEST quality is his willingness to delegate to and trust the people under him. This is lesson 1 in MBA school. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/58 "2002-12-03T19:21:02Z")
I knew I saw this somewhere but not from Cecil himself. Bush made a 1206 on his SAT. 566 verbal 🙂 and 640 math. Here is the link – [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010622.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010622.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/59 "2002-12-03T19:34:56Z")
– Got a BA from Yale _…Daddy’s name got him in_ – Got an MBA from Harvard _…ditto_ – Became a jet pilot _…of an obsolete aircraft, thus guaranteeing he could not go to Nam_ – Established and ran an oil business _…established by Daddy’s friends. “Run” into the ground_ – Made a fortune running a baseball team _…made a fortune selling it, was incompetent at running it_. – Beat a popular incumbant governor, Anne Richards, in his first political race _…backed by Daddy’s name, Daddy’s oil cronies’ money, fueled by anti-Clinton fervor in a redneck state_. – Improved minority education in Texas _…Cite?_ – Was overwhelmingly re-elected as governor _…anti-Clinton, redneck state_ – Made Texas a strongly Republican state \*…He MADE them Republican? 😕 What were they before, a bunch of raving liberals? – Was elected President _…was **appointed** president by a fixed SCOTUS after losing the election to Gore. Won the nomination on the strength of Daddy’s name, big oil money, and the villification of John McCain._ – Won a legal battle against his opponent _…What did W have to do with the legal fight? Did he research or argue anything?_ – Chose foreign policy advisors who were very well-qualified to deal with the war on terror _…you mean criminals like Kissinger and Poindexter?_ – Got Congress to enact a large tax cut _…you mean a massive giveaway to the rich by a Republican congress which subsequently hurt the economy and left us short on funds to fight the “war on terror.”_ – Unilaterally cut our nuclear arsenal _…unilaterally?_ – Saved the Afghan people from the Taliban and from starvation last winter _…replaced one oppressive regime with another (and don’t forget that Daddy was largely responsible for the Taliban being in power in the first place) Dropped a few boxes of pop tarts on the Afghanis after bombing them to hell_ – Dispersed al Qaeda _…which makes them harder to find and defend against._ – Killed or disabled Osama bin Laden _We don’t know that. The US authenticated an audio tape just a couple of weeks ago._ – Has been enormously popular with the American people _…The American people are morons_. – Led his party to unprecedected Congressional victory _…post election polls showed that Bush had nothing to do with how most people voted._ – Got Congress to pass the biggest government re-organization in 50 years _…a congress of Republican lackeys_. – Got Congressional approval to attack Iraq _…ditto_. – Got Congressional fast-track trade negotiation authority, which had been denied to Clinton. _…ditto_ – Got a unanimous UN resolution against Iraq _…got the UN to enforce new inspections. BFD. :rolleyes: He did NOT get UN approval for the politically motivated, unilateral, unprovoked, US invasion that he wanted._ ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/60 "2002-12-03T19:36:52Z")
… and with a 1206 on his SAT GWB’s IQ is about 124 according to this SAT to IQ conversion table [http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/SATIQ.html](http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/SATIQ.html) Seeing that medical doctors are thought to have an average IQ of about 120 - GWB’s 124 ain’t bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207.md?page=4)