# How smart should a president be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207 "2002-11-27T21:35:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/61 "2002-12-03T20:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **– Got a BA from Yale _…Daddy’s name got him in_ > – Got an MBA from Harvard _…ditto_** Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Bush got in solely due to family ties, those are still difficult programs. Daddy didn’t take Junior’s tests or write his papers for him. At least, that’s what I always hear affirmative action proponents saying. I would say as evidence for the proposition that “Bush is smart,” graduation from Ivy League institutions at both the undergraduate and graduate school levels is perfectly relevant.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Became a jet pilot _…of an obsolete aircraft, thus guaranteeing he could not go to Nam_\*\* Even if we take your point as true, what bearing does this have on Bush’s intelligence? The fact that Bush mastered the difficult task of flying a jet aircraft is evidence of intelligence.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Established and ran an oil business _…established by Daddy’s friends. “Run” into the ground_\*\* Everyone who says this fails to note that similar oil ventures were also doing poorly at the time. Bush should not be held responsible for industry-wide slumps. Indeed, in some of the prior threads discussing Harken Energy, there is reason to believe that Bush’s actions may well have saved the company. That’s a sign of _good_ management. At any rate, I’ve never heard anyone who raises this point make a case for any specific acton of Bush’s as being mismanagement of the company.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Made a fortune running a baseball team _…made a fortune selling it, was incompetent at running it_.\*\* Other than the Sammy Sosa trade, what exactly was “incompetent” about Bush’s tenure at the Rangers?\*\* > [@](#): > > – Was overwhelmingly re-elected as governor _…anti-Clinton, redneck state_\*\* Historically, Bush’s win was a very big deal. Bush was the first governor to win an immediate second term in a very long time (over a century, IIRC). Texas is notoriously eager to throw governors out on their ears. Bush broke that tradition.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Chose foreign policy advisors who were very well-qualified to deal with the war on terror _…you mean criminals like Kissinger and Poindexter?_\*\* More like distinguished people of competence like Colin Powell and Condi Rice.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Has been enormously popular with the American people _…The American people are morons_.\*\* And this little ditty says so much more about you than it does about Bush. Do you really think the American people “morons?” \*\* > [@](#): > > – Led his party to unprecedected Congressional victory _…post election polls showed that Bush had nothing to do with how most people voted._\*\* Most analysts believe that Bush’s efforts in tight races swayed the people at the margins. He may not have influenced how most people voted, but he did influence those key voters who could swing an election either way.\*\* > [@](#): > > – Got a unanimous UN resolution against Iraq _…got the UN to enforce new inspections. BFD. :rolleyes: He did NOT get UN approval for the politically motivated, unilateral, unprovoked, US invasion that he wanted._ \*\* Ah, but it is the threat of force that made the new inspection regime possible. That’s smart diplomacy – y’know, carrying a big stick and all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/62 "2002-12-03T20:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Even if we take your point as true, what bearing does this have on Bush’s intelligence? The fact that Bush mastered the difficult task of flying a jet aircraft is evidence of intelligence. I wasn’t trying to argue against his inate intellect with all this, I was trying to argue that he has been exceptionally _priveleged_ all his life. I do not believe that he has ever known what it is like to be part of the working class. This is a different kind of ignorance than purely intellectual. He has been spoiled, pampered, and protected all his life. He is _experientially_ moronic about the lives of ordinary people. He is an elitist, a snob. He surrounds himself with sycophants. He wanted to be POTUS purely for the prestige and the vanity of it. He has admitted that he can’t read policy, and that he relies on advisors to explain things to him. I believe that people like Karl Rove and Dick Cheney actually make the real decisons and that Bush just signs what they tell him to sign. I also believe that W is joined at the hip with big oil and will never act autonomously against those interests. In other words, there is no real cognitive _authority_ in the oval office. There is no creative [mind] at work. He is simply a well mannered, reasonably educated, corporate sock puppet. This is all MHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/63 "2002-12-03T20:25:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > _…The American people are morons_. And THIS is exactly what the left wing believes, God bless 'em. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/64 "2002-12-03T20:30:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E72521 \* > \*\*Before the “election” of '00, W could not identify Afghanistan on a map. A year later, W was leading an invasion of said country… \*\* FWIW, IIRC bush could not recall the name of the pakistani president, although he correctly said something along the lines of “the general…, the one who took power in the coup…”. I don’t think he was ever asked to find afghanistan on a map, however according to a recent report, heard on npr, a majority of americans can’t find afghanistan on a map. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/65 "2002-12-03T20:32:26Z")
Given that an astronomical number of American children couldn’t get New York on the East Coast in a recently publicized geography test sponsored by the NGS, I wouldn’t be bragging on the intelligence of the American public. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/66 "2002-12-03T20:34:45Z")
70% of Americans believe in angels. Americans are morons. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/67 "2002-12-03T20:38:44Z")
Ahhh… Religious belief equates to stupidity. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/68 "2002-12-03T20:45:10Z")
Religious beliefs may not equate to stupidity, but these results don’t bode well for the future:[http://www.edweek.org/ew/ewstory.cfm?slug=13geography.h22](http://www.edweek.org/ew/ewstory.cfm?slug=13geography.h22) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/69 "2002-12-03T20:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I wasn’t trying to argue against his inate intellect with all this, I was trying to argue that he has been exceptionally _priveleged_ all his life. I do not believe that he has ever known what it is like to be part of the working class. This is a different kind of ignorance than purely intellectual. \*\* (a) You’re moving the goalposts. The thread asks questions about Bush’s intelligence, not his life experience. (b) How is any of this different from Al Gore? (And hey, at least Bush was never a [slumlord](http://www.reporter-news.com/abilene2000/elec/move0708.html)) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/70 "2002-12-03T21:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > (a) You’re moving the goalposts. The thread asks questions about Bush’s intelligence, not his life experience. > > (b) How is any of this different from Al Gore? If you go back a ways un the thread, you will see that my delineation of W’s career was offered as a rebuttal to the assertion that calling him a moron was “politically incorrect.” I was trying tp point out that politically incorrect language was that which was disparaging of those who have historically suffered discrimination (minorities, homosexuals, women, etc,). My point was that W did not fall into any of these groups (in fact just the opposite, he has gotten SPECIAL treatment all of his life) and thus calling him a moron was not PI. I was not necessarily arguing for the veracity of the claim (though not much against it either) so much as for the PCness of it. And I have said twice in this thread that Gore is no different. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207/71 "2002-12-03T21:55:27Z")
Just one more shot at this topic. Since Gore was one of the two viable choices I’ll add this. Gore dropped out of law school while Bush graduated from Harvard with a graduate degree. Here’s something to think about which came from the site linked below > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, at Gore’s grad school alma mater, Vanderbilt University, no one dares breathe a word about his grades – or whether they had anything to do with Gore’s decision to drop out of law school. > “I sat right next to Gore in class,” says Vanderbilt law graduate Jack Thompson, who suspects Gore may have actually flunked out. University officials have stonewalled Thompson’s repeated requests for the Gore grade info. Here’s the link [http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2000/1/27/94839](http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2000/1/27/94839) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-smart-should-a-president-be/139207.md?page=3)