# How soon until the Tsarnaev brothers were framed conspiracy theory takes root? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215 "2013-04-20T13:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/21 "2013-04-20T21:10:11Z")
That’s willing participation, not a frame-up. The word for that is “conspiracy,” or at best, “used.” And there are some indications of links to pro-terrorism religious fanatics, but we’ve seen stuff like that before. That’s one person convincing another to commit a crime, which at least in some cases is criminal conspiracy. Not framing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/22 "2013-04-20T21:38:38Z")
Plus, you can’t be “framed” for a crime you actually did commit. “Framed”, be definition, means you didn’t commit the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/23 "2013-04-20T21:46:52Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Wait, you mean it WASN’T right-wing loonies? I’d seen so much about it here that I just assumed that they were. > > Maybe they were part of the Chechen branch of the Tea Party (motto: “Give me liberty or give me vodka!”). Yeah, that’s it. ::: Splort::: You owe me a new keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/24 "2013-04-20T22:48:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Plus, you can’t be “framed” for a crime you actually did commit. “Framed”, be definition, means you didn’t commit the crime. Well to nitpick, I _suppose_ it could also apply to someone manipulated by somebody else into committing something they didn’t _realize_ was a crime and taking the fall for it\*. But that would only apply to complicated/obscure laws that someone reasonably might not realize existed, corporate/financial crime and such; any idiot is going to know bombing people and shooting cops is a crime. \*Example: A boss tells his employee to commit a crime the employee doesn’t _know_ is a crime and makes sure there’s no record of the order, and when the crime is discovered denies he gave any orders and claims the employee acted on his own. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/25 "2013-04-21T00:44:33Z")
All of the nations that we have a beef with, and we’re going to frame CHECHENS? Not Saudis or Iranians or North Koreans or Syrians or Somalis or… Why the hell would we frame Chechens with all of the furriners that we really hate? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/26 "2013-04-21T00:59:40Z")
> [@Alex\_from\_CB](#): > > Said he doesn’t make idol threats No iconoclast, he! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/27 "2013-04-21T01:27:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well to nitpick, I _suppose_ it could also apply to someone manipulated by somebody else into committing something they didn’t _realize_ was a crime and taking the fall for it\*. But that would only apply to complicated/obscure laws that someone reasonably might not realize existed, corporate/financial crime and such; any idiot is going to know bombing people and shooting cops is a crime. > > \*Example: A boss tells his employee to commit a crime the employee doesn’t _know_ is a crime and makes sure there’s no record of the order, and when the crime is discovered denies he gave any orders and claims the employee acted on his own. I’d have to see a cite that “framing” is the correct turn for that. I don’t think it is. \* Ignorantia juris non excusat.\* ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/28 "2013-04-21T01:36:44Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > All of the nations that we have a beef with, and we’re going to frame CHECHENS? > > Not Saudis or Iranians or North Koreans or Syrians or Somalis or… > > Why the hell would we frame Chechens with all of the furriners that we really hate? So that the Russians can crack down on them in advance of the 2014 Winter Olympics, maybe? (I don’t actually believe this to be true because as if Russia ever needed anyone’s permission to crack down… but I think it’s a good enough connection to fuel conspiracy theories.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/29 "2013-04-21T01:41:23Z")
I was sitting in a bar, drinking a beer when the story broke on TV. Some doofus went on a rant about false flag operations, Obama, the CIA, etc. On the bright side, everyone pretty much ignored him. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/30 "2013-04-21T01:44:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > - > > Ignorantia juris non excusat.\* For _malum se_ yes, but not for _malum prohibitum_. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/31 "2013-04-21T01:50:03Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > motto: “Give me liberty or give me vodka!” Jack Benny: I’m _thinking…_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/32 "2013-04-21T02:45:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > For _malum se_ yes, but not for _malum prohibitum_. Good luck getting out of any of these because you didn’t know it was against the law. > [@](#): > > Crimes and torts that might be considered as malum prohibitum—but not malum in se—include: > > Parking violations > Building or modifying a house without a license > Copyright infringement > Driving without a valid license > Gambling > Illegal drug use > Operating a business without a license > Prohibition of alcohol > Prostitution > Speeding > Surrogacy for profit > Tax noncompliance, Tax resistance, Tax evasion, Tax information reporting > Truancy > Violating building codes > Weapon possession ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/33 "2013-04-21T03:42:48Z")
Well, shit. All those are just any good redneck weekend for someone here in the deep south. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/34 "2013-04-21T03:53:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Good luck getting out of any of these because you didn’t know it was against the law. That looks like it’s from the Wiki, and uncited there. It has a lot of torts, for which the principle would be different if it applies at all. However the law isn’t always so great at sticking to original principles, so that list may well include _malum prohibitum_ crimes for which ignorance is no (useful) excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/35 "2013-04-21T22:10:58Z")
> [@Alex\_from\_CB](#): > > Said he doesn’t make idol threats, either. Really. Honest. If this Saudi is like most Saudis, he would not only threaten idols, he would smash them and punish anyone worshipping them. When you have an idle moment, look up the homonym under both spellings. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/36 "2013-04-21T23:02:09Z")
> [@Alex\_from\_CB](#): > > Right wing Republic Party member, Glenn Beck has …warned… The Obama Administration that he’s going public on Monday, April 22nd with the facts about the real perp, a Saudi man who the Obama Administration whisked back to Saudi Arabia in order to conceal his acts. Hmm..major terrorist attack on a US city, the President secretly whisks away Saudi Arabian citizens with connections to the perpetrators… [That sounds vaguely familiar](http://www.globalresearch.ca/bin-laden-family-members-evacuated-from-us-in-wake-of-the-9-11-attacks/15186). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/37 "2013-04-22T01:22:50Z")
[Here’s an article](http://www.naturalnews.com/039996_security_theater_Boston_marathon_FBI_terror.html) posted yesterday on Natural News by “health ranger” and conspiracy buff Mike Adams (the marathon bombing was plotted by the F.B.I. as part of a plan to promote a police state, or something like that). Typical wacko stuff, but the site apparently has a fair-sized audience. I’ve seen similar theories advanced by other crackpot loons who think 9/11 was a frameup, that vaccines are a sinister government tool to control us etc. Crank magnetism has already sucked this story into its orbit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/38 "2013-04-22T04:19:50Z")
Man, as if there was a need for more evidence to discredit Natural News as a source. Indeed **Jackmannii** , that is wacko and it is even unrelated stuff for a Naturalist wacko site. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/39 "2013-04-22T06:13:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No iconoclast, he! Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215/40 "2013-04-22T19:50:41Z")
Hehe, [the most elaborate “conspiracy!” post I’ve seen so far](http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU)… [Warning: VERY graphic picture of dead suspect among the photos] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-until-the-tsarnaev-brothers-were-framed-conspiracy-theory-takes-root/656215.md?page=3)