# How soon will the Clinton team carcus call for investigation of election results in swing states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 23, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793 "2016-11-23T04:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/42 "2016-11-24T05:50:23Z")
Merged additional thread about recounts, etc. I see I screwed up the sequence threading (I was specifically cautioned about this, alas). [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/43 "2016-11-24T06:18:51Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Checking the results and claiming that elections are a sham beforehand and with no evidence are not remotely the same thing. That’s not what Democrats said. They said our elections’ integrity should not be questioned. If shenanigans are a real possibility then there’s nothing wrong with saying there might be shenanigans beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/44 "2016-11-24T06:59:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Doesn’t help the party, but it sure helps progressives. If Clinton had won it would have cemented the Wall Street wing of the party in power. Now progressives have a shot at the nomination in 2020. That’s pretty plainly wrong. It presumes that the misinformation that the RW media (and passionate Sanders fans) post on facebook is factual. Clinton is plenty progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/45 "2016-11-24T07:02:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not what Democrats said. They said our elections’ integrity should not be questioned. If shenanigans are a real possibility then there’s nothing wrong with saying there might be shenanigans beforehand. They said that questioning it without evidence of any malfeasance is shitty. If you accept the idea of the supposed statistical anomalies, especially after Trump, the FBI and Putin have been felching each other’s tapioca, it’s not the same. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/46 "2016-11-24T07:49:19Z")
The Usurping Games. Let the usurping begin. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/47 "2016-11-24T07:52:59Z")
> [@dave23](#): > > I am hoping Trump will win these elections because Clinton nothing did during his presidency. Let give a chance to Trupm and see what he can do or not better than Clinton.😕 I like how this ends with a little drawing of the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/48 "2016-11-24T12:54:59Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > such a hack doesn’t need to involve a lot of people… We \*\*\*told \*\*\*Donald not to piss off that 400lb hacker sitting on his bed. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/49 "2016-11-24T13:01:04Z")
All the “my side is right, your side is wrong” back and forth doesn’t advance this question even one little bit. What I want to know is how one goes about auditing the output of an electronic voting machine? If 1000 voters use a given machine, and the machine says that 600 voted for candidate A and 350 voted for B, and the other 50 voted for C or didn’t make a choice on that race, how does anyone tell if the machine reported correctly? Seems to me that a simple line or two of programming that changes every 6th Hillary vote into anything else, could, with modern technology, be inserted electronically by the same guy who steals your credit card information while walking past you in the mall. Anyone smart enough to accomplish this could do it for every voting machine in the state, just by gaining access to the warehouse where they are kept. And, not a problem, make it work only on election day. All partisanship aside, my main question is, how do you know if an electronic machine is reporting incorrectly on the day that votes are taken? How can it be audited? Some observers have claimed that one way they are audited is by exit polling, and, as you know, exit polling was off by 4 or 5 % in the states that swung this election to Trump. Russian programmers are certainly able to pull this off, probably without being detected. We know they were involved in the election on Trump’s side, we don’t know how deeply, do we? Is there an expert in the house who can answer my question? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/50 "2016-11-24T13:13:37Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Russian programmers are certainly able to pull this off, probably without being detected. We know they were involved in the election on Trump’s side, we don’t know how deeply, do we? We don’t even know _how_ they were involved. It’s just an American Truism that when bad things happen, there’s a villainous Russki under the bed. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/51 "2016-11-24T13:59:44Z")
Crucible, I’m no expert but it depends on the machine. Some produce a paper trail and some don’t. If not you’d have to rely on a forensic analysis of the machine. And no “only do this on election day” doesn’t make hacking invisible. [voting method by state](https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state) ---
**Author:** ![mind\_the\_gap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@mind\_the\_gap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mind_the_gap)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/52 "2016-11-24T17:44:29Z")
I have to conclude, based on the rest of the world, that the reason voting is so obtuse is so it CAN be manipulated. If I buy an oil filter at the auto parts store I get a detailed receipt detailing every element of the transaction. Hell, even a simple old fashioned carbon copy phone log provides more of a verified record than our so called “secret ballot”. Even without the electoral college adding to the confusion, this system is outdated. The only reason I see it continuing is that it benefits the so called “establishment” in that it perpetuates their hold on power. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/53 "2016-11-24T17:50:36Z")
My guess is that the Democrats won’t take part in this circus. Hillary lost and the party will have no appetite for clutching at straws. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/54 "2016-11-24T18:26:42Z")
> [@mind\_the\_gap](#): > > I have to conclude, based on the rest of the world, that the reason voting is so obtuse is so it CAN be manipulated. If I buy an oil filter at the auto parts store I get a detailed receipt detailing every element of the transaction. Hell, even a simple old fashioned carbon copy phone log provides more of a verified record than our so called “secret ballot”. Even without the electoral college adding to the confusion, this system is outdated. The only reason I see it continuing is that it benefits the so called “establishment” in that it perpetuates their hold on power. Just making sure, are you saying the only reason for “so called” secret ballots is so that the establishment can fake up the results they want? And a less “outdated” system would print up reciepts and record which candidates people voted for? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/55 "2016-11-24T19:18:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I am unconvinced that Breitbart News is full of evil racists. Indeed, some of them are merely _stupid_ racists. And still others are merely stupid, with no particular racialist views. It’s a rich tapestry, covered in vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/56 "2016-11-24T20:08:12Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > All the “my side is right, your side is wrong” back and forth doesn’t advance this question even one little bit. > > What I want to know is how one goes about auditing the output of an electronic voting machine? If 1000 voters use a given machine, and the machine says that 600 voted for candidate A and 350 voted for B, and the other 50 voted for C or didn’t make a choice on that race, how does anyone tell if the machine reported correctly? > > Seems to me that a simple line or two of programming that changes every 6th Hillary vote into anything else, could, with modern technology, be inserted electronically by the same guy who steals your credit card information while walking past you in the mall. > > Anyone smart enough to accomplish this could do it for every voting machine in the state, just by gaining access to the warehouse where they are kept. And, not a problem, make it work only on election day. > > All partisanship aside, my main question is, how do you know if an electronic machine is reporting incorrectly on the day that votes are taken? How can it be audited? > > Some observers have claimed that one way they are audited is by exit polling, and, as you know, exit polling was off by 4 or 5 % in the states that swung this election to Trump. > > Russian programmers are certainly able to pull this off, probably without being detected. We know they were involved in the election on Trump’s side, we don’t know how deeply, do we? > > Is there an expert in the house who can answer my question? How would the Russian hackers erase their code from all the machines? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/57 "2016-11-24T20:23:38Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > All the “my side is right, your side is wrong” back and forth doesn’t advance this question even one little bit. > > What I want to know is how one goes about auditing the output of an electronic voting machine? If 1000 voters use a given machine, and the machine says that 600 voted for candidate A and 350 voted for B, and the other 50 voted for C or didn’t make a choice on that race, how does anyone tell if the machine reported correctly? > > Seems to me that a simple line or two of programming that changes every 6th Hillary vote into anything else, could, with modern technology, be inserted electronically by the same guy who steals your credit card information while walking past you in the mall. > > Anyone smart enough to accomplish this could do it for every voting machine in the state, just by gaining access to the warehouse where they are kept. And, not a problem, make it work only on election day. > > All partisanship aside, my main question is, how do you know if an electronic machine is reporting incorrectly on the day that votes are taken? How can it be audited? > > Some observers have claimed that one way they are audited is by exit polling, and, as you know, exit polling was off by 4 or 5 % in the states that swung this election to Trump. > > Russian programmers are certainly able to pull this off, probably without being detected. We know they were involved in the election on Trump’s side, we don’t know how deeply, do we? > > Is there an expert in the house who can answer my question? I’m rather curious about this, myself. Are the machines ever tested with a simulated election where the (say) 1000-vote input is precisely known to have 614 votes for Candidate A, 341 for Candidate B, 15 for Candidate C, and 30 votes that are deliberately spoiled or otherwise unreadable/ambiguous and should be put aside for human examination? Would it be particularly burdensome to run tests like this before and after an election? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/58 "2016-11-24T21:27:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How would the Russian hackers erase their code from all the machines? Most likely avenue would be to hack the transmission of results, rather than effectively reprogram the machinery. Which, as you suggest, would be a daunting task. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/59 "2016-11-25T05:00:16Z")
Stein has raised her goal of $2.5 million and now has over $4.5, and the goal has been increased to $7 million, which I think she will reach. [https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount](https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount) I like the suggestion that the Democrats have urged her to do this. It makes a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/60 "2016-11-25T05:01:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How would the Russian hackers erase their code from all the machines? The code could erase itself after doing the deed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/61 "2016-11-25T05:26:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s all well and good, but wasn’t Vox on board with the rhetoric that questioning the integrity of our elections was disqualifying and extremely dangerous? It might be lost on the average person (and thus look bad politically), but there is a difference between a priori saying the system must be rigged, and, after the fact, seeing some unusual results and just wanting to check to make sure. That said, it wasn’t rigged. The likelihood is much lower than even Sam Wang gave Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793.md?page=4)